ADUK Archive

adiNigel wrote:

OILY PAWS wrote:....The terminology employed is confusing, it's called a Test, but it's actually an assessment, carried out over the whole day...../quote]

I have only ever seen it called Compulsory Bike Training. Where is it referred to as a test?

Nigel

Sorry, what I should have said is everybody Calls it a "test".............

and staying on one of the test routes ( set routes same as a car test, certain amounts of hazards included) along with knowing a number of instructors it's not the easy thing it's being portrayed here.
IMHO, if they are using it as a bridge to driving a car that will make them better car drivers, more appreciative of changes in road surface, the difference weather makes to grip etc etc.

It may give them some road sense and possibly an advantage over a non moped rider but....

If you think the average 18-21 year is thinking about changers road surface when there driving along you are sorely mistaken. I have 21 year old assistant qs who wets himself laughing when he has been in a car with me covering the horn, feeding the wheel and talking about changes in road surface its all a bloody joke to him. Probably why he is paying the finance on a car he wrote off 18 months in a tree. You think he might be more open to some learning but he think he is an amazin driver already. When I have been in a car with him he is more interested what music is coming through his ipod than the changes in road surface.

OILY PAWS wrote:....and staying on one of the test routes ( set routes same as a car test, certain amounts of hazards included) along with knowing a number of instructors it's not the easy thing it's being portrayed here.

Maybe not quite, but it isn't far off!

OILY PAWS wrote:IMHO, if they are using it as a bridge to driving a car that will make them better car drivers, more appreciative of changes in road surface, the difference weather makes to grip etc etc.

If they were taking further and taking teh test, yes it should make them better pupils when learning to drive. Unfortunately, the moped riders only go as far as taking the CBT because they intend to take their car test before the CBT expires.

Riders that have taken their bike test do tend to be good when they learn to drive a car. Their observations tend to be better than the average learner. In my experience the moped riders perform no better than any other learner.

As someone else suggested, the CBT should last no longer than 6 months.

Nigel

I said 3-6 mths as then they wouldnt view it as a fast track to motorised freedom. Its not being used for what it was intended IMHO.

And/Or a 3 strike system on on CBT if you get stopped by the police more than 3 times whiel on a CBT because of teh manor of your riding it should be withdrawn.

adinigel....not being inflammatory, but have you sat a CBT?, I still maintain it's not that easy.... it takes at least a whole day. the instructors dictate the pace of the training, and the movement on to the next module/part

but, a theory test should be part of the road to the CBT

jbsportstech wrote:It may give them some road sense and possibly an advantage over a non moped rider but....

If you think the average 18-21 year is thinking about changers road surface when there driving along you are sorely mistaken.

I suspect the young lad who ran into the back of you might have learnt a thing or two about surface grip, observation nd anticipation. Sometimes people learn in different ways......

Red Herring wrote:

jbsportstech wrote:It may give them some road sense and possibly an advantage over a non moped rider but....

If you think the average 18-21 year is thinking about changers road surface when there driving along you are sorely mistaken.

I suspect the young lad who ran into the back of you might have learnt a thing or two about surface grip, observation nd anticipation. Sometimes people learn in different ways......

I suspect they are more likely to be complaining to their mates about the prat in the mondeo who "brake tested" them and have learnt very little.

Red Herring wrote:

jbsportstech wrote:It may give them some road sense and possibly an advantage over a non moped rider but....

If you think the average 18-21 year is thinking about changers road surface when there driving along you are sorely mistaken.

I suspect the young lad who ran into the back of you might have learnt a thing or two about surface grip, observation nd anticipation. Sometimes people learn in different ways......

I never said anything about thinking about it, "more appreciative" was the term I used ..............call it experiential learning.........although hopefully not as extreme as RH has pointed out, surely someone running about for an extended period of time on a scoot will pick up some form of roadcraft (small r ) or road sense

Every year thousands of teenagers go through the moped stage and the vast majority of them have an "off" of some kind, from which fortunately most of them come away with nothing more than a few bumps and bruises. Tragically there are a few that get seriously injured or killed, but although this is sad it is a fact of life, part of the big learning curve we go through. These lives are not wasted, they tell the rest of us that riding a moped can be dangerous and as a result we have a few rules and regulations to try and make it safer. As with everything there has to be a balance. If you make it harder to get on a moped legally then there will be those that will do so illegally, or not at all. Both will be denied the opportunity to learn from life. There comes a point when we need to give people responsibility in order for them to learn to handle it, and the benefit to society from them becoming responsible will far outweigh the short term cost of their mistakes along the way. CBT works reasonably well in this delicate balance. I did ask a few pages ago if anyone on here has actually got any experience of CBT but nobody has offered themselves up. It does seem to me that a few of us are dismissing something based on little knowledge and the actions of one rider.

Good post RH.............

I asked the same question about the CBT, which I did many many many moons ago (17 years ago tbp) and it was probably easier then......

jont wrote:

Red Herring wrote:

jbsportstech wrote:It may give them some road sense and possibly an advantage over a non moped rider but....

If you think the average 18-21 year is thinking about changers road surface when there driving along you are sorely mistaken.

I suspect the young lad who ran into the back of you might have learnt a thing or two about surface grip, observation nd anticipation. Sometimes people learn in different ways......

I suspect they are more likely to be complaining to their mates about the prat in the mondeo who "brake tested" them and have learnt very little.

When I told him my observation of his riding he was smiling and thoughtit was a bit of joke. Don't think he learnt from it even though it smashed his front mud guard which I assume is a legal requirement on those machines.

I can remember being a bit of dick when I was 17-18 but when I had an accident I was gutted and it was very serious as far as I was concerned.

OILY PAWS wrote:

I asked the same question about the CBT, which I did many many many moons ago (17 years ago tbp) and it was probably easier then......

You wouldn't be saying that if I'd been your instructor..........

jbsportstech wrote:

nuster100 wrote:So playing devils advocate, you could see all of this happening but still allowed them to hit you??

what could you do differently next time?? (honest question)

Jay

Thats a fair question.

Pull over and let him pass.

I was stopped at a light controled pedestrian crossing with people crossing so movin forward wasn't an option.

It was really the adverse weather conditions and his failure to take them into account.

Anyone got any ideas I put some distance between us pulled up very slowly but if someone is determined to stop late and hard inches from yr bumper what else can you do in icey conditions.

If your stationary at a controled crossing or junction and there is some complete idiot steaming about what can you do to stop them ploughinh up your rear?

You could try pulling up a length or 2 short, then moving forward if necessary at the appropriate moment. A few feet can make all the difference.

I suspect the worst moped offenders are outside the system anyway. Changing CBT won't affect those who choose not to bother with it.

zadocbrown wrote:

jbsportstech wrote:

nuster100 wrote:So playing devils advocate, you could see all of this happening but still allowed them to hit you??

what could you do differently next time?? (honest question)

Jay

Thats a fair question.

Pull over and let him pass.

I was stopped at a light controled pedestrian crossing with people crossing so movin forward wasn't an option.

I did that stopped short and moved as he approach.

Any other suggestions.

It was really the adverse weather conditions and his failure to take them into account.

Anyone got any ideas I put some distance between us pulled up very slowly but if someone is determined to stop late and hard inches from yr bumper what else can you do in icey conditions.

If your stationary at a controled crossing or junction and there is some complete idiot steaming about what can you do to stop them ploughinh up your rear?

You could try pulling up a length or 2 short, then moving forward if necessary at the appropriate moment. A few feet can make all the difference.

I suspect the worst moped offenders are outside the system anyway. Changing CBT won't affect those who choose not to bother with it.

I did that stopped short and moved forward but he was determined to stop nice and close one of these go go go stop hard people, racing from point to point.

OILY PAWS wrote:adinigel....not being inflammatory, but have you sat a CBT?,

It would be very difficult for me to criticise the CBT if I had no experience of it wouldn't it?

Actually I've sat 2. 1 many years ago when I started using a 125 bike to commute. Just used it for about 18 months so never bothered to take the test. The 2nd time was as part of a DAS course when I was planning to buy a proper bike.

Considering the CBT gets used as a passport to the road for many moped riders who probably just want to use the moped at 16 until they are old enough & ready to take the car test. probably not even thinking about taking a bike test.

If the life of the CBT were to be reduced to 3 or 6 months as has been suggested then most of the moped riders would be forced to take further training & also the bike test - could make a huge contribution to road safety - would probably reduce the time they need to prepare for the car test too.

OILY PAWS wrote: I still maintain it's not that easy.... it takes at least a whole day. the instructors dictate the pace of the training, and the movement on to the next module/part

Surely the pace of the course is dictated by the pupil's ability? I don't dictate the pace of training with my car pupils - my pupils do!

Nigel