Prison Diary

[Red Herring]

You started talking about high speeds.

That's right, in response to a comment about low speeds. Low and high are relative to circumstance. A speed that is low for one bend may be high for another. That is why as Advanced drivers we talk about appropriate speed. Both could easily be within a speed limit.

[vonhosen]

You started talking about high speeds.

That's right, in response to a comment about low speeds. Low and high are relative to circumstance. A speed that is low for one bend may be high for another. That is why as Advanced drivers we talk about appropriate speed. Both could easily be within a speed limit.

You can have appropriate & inappropriate speeds within a speed limit, but not high speeds within a speed limit.

[Red Herring]

Define "high" please.

[vonhosen]

Define "high" please.

Considerably in excess of the limit, it's not within it.

High speed in a 30 limit is not 15, even if 15 is inappropriate for the circumstances it doesn't make it a high speed.

[Red Herring]

Sorry, can't find mention of limits in any definition, Closest I could get is in the Oxfod Dictionary where it defines High speed as "operating or moving at great speed".
I think you've been sat in to many police cars and are now applying their definitions to mere mortals such as us.

[ExadiNigel]

....but not high speeds within a speed limit.

Sorry, but of course you can.

Nigel

[jbsportstech]

I do find it intresting where he comments on the other peoples reaction to being overtaken, it does seem these days like anyone wishing to make such pogress is labled as a boy racer or bad driver.


Having said that, out of the young people i have known / heard of being killed in car crashes in my area, about 70% have been driving civic type R's

Jay

I have to agree.

I am a nightmare for sounding like a pigeon hole people but every integra or Civic type r driven by a man under 50 years old round my way sees the st badge on my focus and wants a bloody race me its like a red flag to a bull.

I had one guy stop next to me at the lights (Having not been driving along with him b4) and was reving the nuts of it while rocking the car by lighting the clutch to the biting point but keeping the handbrake on. When the lights changed he went off liek a madman into a crowded town centre on a summers afternoon.

I am not saying he was one of these people but its chaps like that get them a bad name.

On overtaking I am suprised by the amount of people who dither about and then you overtake them safely they flash there lights at you even if your still within the speed limit. I bet if I crashed further up there version of events would be damming in court '' He passed me on two wheels going about 200mph like a madman'' Yea ok.

[jbsportstech]

I am a nightmare for sounding like a pigeon hole people but every integra or Civic type r driven by a man under 50 years old round my way sees the st badge on my focus and wants a bloody race me its like a red flag to a bull.

I'd imagine the Civic R forum says exactly the same thing about Focus ST drivers...

In the words of a barrister of my acquaintance: "It's a Gary car with a Gary driver being driven like a Gary". Hot hatches are obviously a draw for the less well-heeled fraternity as they're relatively cheap, and fast and all yer mates have one innit.

Yea focus st drivers bot st170 drivers as its a luke warm hatch as clarkson said.

Maybe but when I have attended meets and driven in a dare to say a convoy I was shocked how knowone decided to drive fast. It was unusual going to the ford fair with the fordstownersclub.co.uk as we drove in in a safe sensible convoy at the speed limit with safe distance we where passed by lots of different fords mostly rs turbos etc. Then had a nasty shock as we got into silverstone as there where police stopping them all and are club passed unhindered because we where all being sensible.

The amount of idiots who had pissing contests on the way out was increddibale I pasted several nasty accidents. It didn influenence my decision not to attend this year with my daughter.

[fungus]

My daughter has a Mini Cooper S with 170 bhp under the bonnet. She often comments about boy / girl racers that pull up along side her at traffic lights revving their engines. She just lets them race off. As she said. "When you dont rise to the bait, they look a bit silly, and it gives them no satisifaction if no one races them. And besides, I would rather have them in front of me, than behind". To which I remind her that racing on the public highway is illegal anyway.

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer

[vonhosen]

....but not high speeds within a speed limit.

Sorry, but of course you can.

Nigel

Eh ?

20 in a 30 is not a high speed.

45 in a 50 is not a high speed.

100 in a 50 is.

That doesn't mean that 20 in a 30, or 45 in a 50 can't be inappropriate speeds, but it doesn't make the number any higher because it is inappropriate.
And the fact 100 in a 50 is a high speed, doesn't mean it was unsafe either.

[Red Herring]

So 70mph isn't high speed then? I think you will find a fair proportion of the population who rarely drive any faster may think that plenty fast enough. In fact 60mph on a single lane rural road is pretty high speed as well.

[vonhosen]

No I don't consider it a high speed & if I'm not interested in doing (or are prevented in law for doing) high speeds, it doesn't suddenly turn low or normal speeds into high speeds.

Whilst I may consider 70 adequate progress it doesn't make it a high speed because I do.

[ExadiNigel]

....but not high speeds within a speed limit.

Sorry, but of course you can.

Nigel

Eh ?

20 in a 30 is not a high speed.

Did I say it was? It may be it may be not.

45 in a 50 is not a high speed.

Did I say it was? It may be it may be not.

100 in a 50 is.

Did I say it wasn't? It may be it may be not.

That doesn't mean that 20 in a 30, or 45 in a 50 can't be inappropriate speeds, but it doesn't make the number any higher because it is inappropriate.
And the fact 100 in a 50 is a high speed, doesn't mean it was unsafe either.

Not suggesting it is or isn't, it depends entirely on the circumstances at the time.

I think the problem here is you perception of the word high. I haven't looked, but I doubt if any reputable dictionary would define high speed as a speed in excess of the speed limit. My belief is that you could interchange the words high and inappropriate in many of the cases you have mentioned.

In Swindon there is a road with parked cars down each side at most times of the day. 30mph speed limit, but speeds of 25-30 would be high speeds for that situation, probably too high.

Nigel

[vonhosen]

I think the problem here is you perception of the word high.

And I think the problem is yours

As I said, just because 25 is inappropriate for the circumstances, it doesn't make 25 a high speed.

That's like saying just because you can only do 3mph through a crowd of people & some are walking at 5mph, they are travelling at high speed.

[michael769]

No I don't consider it a high speed & if I'm not interested in doing (or are prevented in law for doing) high speeds, it doesn't suddenly turn low or normal speeds into high speeds.

Whilst I may consider 70 adequate progress it doesn't make it a high speed because I do.

The term "high speed" is a relative term, and you need to consider what the baseline is. If the baseline is the speed limit I'd grant you your argument. But if the baseline is what a sensible driver would consider appropriate on a single track road 2m wide which has black ice with water flowing over it (as I had to cope with this morning ), then doing 45 or even 20 in a 60 could be considered to be a "high speed".

I wonder if you are expressing a specific legal meaning, or a technical meaning used by those who enforce the law, rather than the everyday meaning in the English language?