ADUK Archive

Custom24 wrote:

7db wrote:On necessity - it's not what it used to be. Essentially there's no line offence available for those sort of chevrons (nor indeed had they had solid borders) -- simply a question of careful and considerate driving.

7db, about the solid borders. Are you saying there is no problem entering those? HC rule 130 expressly forbids it unless it is an emergency. Or maybe I am reading you wrong.

This is a topic which crops up from time to time. The old version of the HC was less clear. The new one words it much better, I think.

The hatching in the video was diagonal lines - apologies for calling them a sort of chevrons - that is misleading. These are occasionally presented on the road with solid borders, which is not a road sign in TSRGD, except where it is a widening of a DWL system, upto - IIRC - 1.2m. Many instances have them significantly wider than this, and there is no line offence available for entering that area. There might well be a S3 offered if relevant.

True chevrons inside the solid white lines are legislated in the special roads rules and appear principally at slip roads on motorways - and are a strict do not enter except in emergencies, per the HC's guidance.

My understanding of hatched areas bordered with solid lines, is the same as a normal solid line. ie you may only cross the line to enter a premises to the right of the line, pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a horse, cyclist, or road maintainence vehicle travelling at 10mph or less.

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer

7db wrote:...apologies for calling them a sort of chevrons - that is misleading.

I thought so too

fungus wrote:My understanding of hatched areas bordered with solid lines, is the same as a normal solid line. ie you may only cross the line to enter a premises to the right of the line, pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a horse, cyclist, or road maintainence vehicle travelling at 10mph or less.

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer

The only solid white line that these rules apply to is one that forms part of a double white line system.

Highways bods appear to put them in places they wish to discourage drivers from entering. They are not approved by the regulations and have no legal significance

Here are some pics to help:-

Chevrons with solid line:-

Chevrons with broken line:-



Diagonals with broken line:-

Diagonals with solid line:-

Not approved so regs don't refer to them.

Diagonal lines on edge of carriageway:-

But not inaccurate, in the pathological sense. I just do it to wheedle out the pedants lurking in the thread...

And there was me thinking you did it deliberately to elicit further questions so you could impress us with your knowledge

I thought the limits of my knowledge were just there to make *you* look good.

MGF wrote:Diagonals with solid line:-

Not approved so regs don't refer to them.

Diagonal with solid line top right & here too

vonhosen wrote:

MGF wrote:Diagonals with solid line:-

Not approved so regs don't refer to them.

Diagonal with solid line top right & here too

MGF wrote:The only solid white line that these rules apply to is one that forms part of a double white line system.

Highways bods appear to put them in places they wish to discourage drivers from entering. They are not approved by the regulations and have no legal significance

Here are some pics to help:- etc etc

What von has helpfully linked to are examples of the diagonals as part of the double white line system (mentioned in the earlier part of my post and also db's) but unhelpfully ignored by von in his post.

Solid white lines are not approved otherwise so don't be confused into thinking they are.

fungus wrote:I think two seconds is too close, and like JB, I prefer a three to four second gap.

[...]

See http:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRrAdlDt5Tk

I'm surprised that you think this clip supports the idea of a 3 - 4 seconds following distance prior to an overtake. By my counting, the following distance is hovering around or under 2 seconds prior to the first overtake.

I'm also not sure I like the way in which the driver accelerated firmly as he's moved out. Finally I'd guess he goes over the speed limit as well without which the overtake wouldn't have been on, and so perhaps that wasn't the best demonstration for IAM or RoADAR purposes.

7db wrote:

oxtondriver wrote:I now feel if it is safe and convenient to overtake using the chevron area then im going to take advantage of it.

Kris - beware. Take into account the views of the overtaken motorist as well when undertaking this sort of manoeuvre.

Another factor is that debris tends to gather on the hatching.

I thought both overtakes were fine. I can see Gareth's point about the immediate acceleration in the first one, but there isn't a rule about how long you have to spend assessing the situation, as far as I know. He looked, he decided to commit, and he went for it. My only worry was whether the black car in front decided to use the moment for another look himself. Presumably the Saab driver was keeping an eye on that, and was happy that the black car was staying where it was for the time being. I agree the speed limit probably fell by the wayside, and with the concommitant point about RoSPA/IAM demonstrations.

The oncoming car is very hard to see thanks to the quality (or lack of it) of the clip, but the overtake is completed in plenty of time, so presumably, again, the Saab driver decided it was safe.

The second overtake was even less contentious. Nothing in sight, and just a simple breeze past.

MGF wrote:

vonhosen wrote:

MGF wrote:Diagonals with solid line:-

Not approved so regs don't refer to them.

Diagonal with solid line top right & here too

MGF wrote:The only solid white line that these rules apply to is one that forms part of a double white line system.

Highways bods appear to put them in places they wish to discourage drivers from entering. They are not approved by the regulations and have no legal significance

Here are some pics to help:- etc etc

What von has helpfully linked to are examples of the diagonals as part of the double white line system (mentioned in the earlier part of my post and also db's) but unhelpfully ignored by von in his post.

Have you ever seen a single solid white line with diagonals on one side, but no line on the other ?
Were you or anybody else honestly referring to such a marking if none exist on our roads ?

The important thing for a hatched area bordered by solid lines, is does it comply with the regs & for that the width permitted is limited.

Part of the problem here is that we have far too much paint on the roads, with too many variations of layout and style and meaning.

If people on forums such as this can be confused by it, we shouldn't be surprised if the great mass of normal disinterested road users fail to understand it and benefit from it.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

chriskay wrote:There's often a loose use of terminology with respect to these markings; there's a difference between diagonal stripes or hatchings ////
and chevrons ^^^^^ (best I can do on my keyboard, but you see the difference). As far as I know, the only prohibition is against entering an area with chevrons bordered with a solid line. As has been mentioned, stripes bordered by a solid line are not an approved marking. Also, as far as I can see, the word "necessary" only occurs in the HC and is to my mind a weasel word, introduced to strongly discourage, but to my mind it in no way prohibits me from making a safe (OK, my judgement) overtake.

Solid lines containing stripes can be legally enforceable, it depends on the width of them.

vonhosen wrote:

chriskay wrote:There's often a loose use of terminology with respect to these markings; there's a difference between diagonal stripes or hatchings ////
and chevrons ^^^^^ (best I can do on my keyboard, but you see the difference). As far as I know, the only prohibition is against entering an area with chevrons bordered with a solid line. As has been mentioned, stripes bordered by a solid line are not an approved marking. Also, as far as I can see, the word "necessary" only occurs in the HC and is to my mind a weasel word, introduced to strongly discourage, but to my mind it in no way prohibits me from making a safe (OK, my judgement) overtake.

Solid lines containing stripes can be legally enforceable, it depends on the width of them.

See what I mean?

No, I know this mess is not of your making, Von, though I fear you may support it; but that further little complication merely serves to back up what I'm saying.

Best wishes all,
Dave.