A car-finding challenge

[Gareth]

Well with all those taxes its a wonder England isn't the most prosperous country on Earth

To be fair the variation and inflation of the levels of the taxes I mentioned, (with the exception of that included on the price of fuel at the pumps), was introduced by the previous government, which had a different view of how wealth should be (re-)distributed. About half way through their tenure I'd begun to think the reason they were so intent on raising taxes was that the country was broke, and now I more than half suspect I was correct as the state budget appears to have been running with a deficit in the good times preceding the crash.

[TripleS]

Lemee guess this is more of that man made global warming bovine excrement isn't it?

Ah, a fellow sceptic. You're talking my language. Welcome to ADUK.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

VAT was introduced in 1973, I believe, under a Conservative government. Pernicious though it is, it is slightly fairer than a sales tax, where the consumer pays ALL the tax on the retail price of the goods.

Looking at this table on Wikipedia, it seems we have to be thankful that even when it rises to 20%, we have one of the lower rates in Europe.

[trkkshotbry]

But don't you already have that in the form of a local sales tax? Re. beer: in general I agree, but I found some great micro breweries in San Francisco & even over here we can get one of my favourites; Anchor Steam Beer.

Cheers, Chris.

Chris:

Yes and no. Obamas' Vat would be yet another additional tax on top of local sales tax.

Dang right I'm a global warming skeptic. I remember being a kid in the 70s worried about another ice age that was going to throw the world into chaos. Its just another trick to seperate us from our money, our liberty, or both.

We are nothing to this planet. The entire collected human race is so inconsequential to the fate of this planet that all our hand wringing a feeble joke. The entire considerable and fantastic mass that is London or New York is no more to the planet than a colony of mites living at the base of your eyelash.

Can you see a coal mine from space? Didn't the volcano in Iceland spew out more harmfull chemicals in a minute than every car on the planet did for the entire length of the eruption? And THAT was a very small hiccup of an eruption barely qualifying for the word eruption.
And "They" want us to worry about our co2 emissions? We would do better to restrict the methane emissions from our own congress and house of Lords after a rich meal as methane is 1000 times more harmfull to the ozone layer and not nearly so easily respirated by the greenery.

Ok. Rant over,

Taxes and politicians will set me off everytime. Its like watching a magician with really slow hands.

Bryan

[martine]

...Dang right I'm a global warming skeptic. I remember being a kid in the 70s worried about another ice age that was going to throw the world into chaos. Its just another trick to seperate us from our money, our liberty, or both.

We are nothing to this planet. The entire collected human race is so inconsequential to the fate of this planet that all our hand wringing a feeble joke. The entire considerable and fantastic mass that is London or New York is no more to the planet than a colony of mites living at the base of your eyelash.

Can you see a coal mine from space? Didn't the volcano in Iceland spew out more harmfull chemicals in a minute than every car on the planet did for the entire length of the eruption? And THAT was a very small hiccup of an eruption barely qualifying for the word eruption.
And "They" want us to worry about our co2 emissions? We would do better to restrict the methane emissions from our own congress and house of Lords after a rich meal as methane is 1000 times more harmfull to the ozone layer and not nearly so easily respirated by the greenery. Bryan

Glad to see you have a balanced and reasoned view! I really can't be bothered to get into a full debate with you but your confidence in your own views does you proud.
Take a look at http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php for another view.

[jont]

Glad to see you have a balanced and reasoned view! I really can't be bothered to get into a full debate with you but your confidence in your own views does you proud.
Take a look at http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php for another view.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/11 ... on_letter/
just to keep the balance

[kfae8959]

We seem to have gone a bit off topic, but there we go - this may be timely, given this story from the Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/green-fatigue-hits-campaign-to-reduce-carbon-footprint-2102585.html.

Bryan - unfortunately we're not inconsequential, any more than the mites are inconsequential to your skin. Some say that those of us in western Europe live as if we had three planets, not one, and those of us in north America live as if we had six. But I haven't done the research myself - just listened to some people who understood more than me, which is what I do when I want to improve my driving, too! Here's another resource to supplement those provided by Martin and Jon: http://www.withouthotair.com/

David

[trkkshotbry]

Ok so there is a surplus of evidence to support whichever world view resonates best with you.
I think the global warming alarmist have overlooked a few possible sources of additional nailbiting ie;
Humans convert so many different things into energy with the resulting heat lost as energy that even without co2 emissions our current rate of energy transformation would ruin our envirnoment.

Every electric motor in use generates small amounts of co2 in the process of cooling the motor. The ozone produced between the brushes and the windings readily pick up carbon as it proceeds on its path out of the motor becoming co2 as well as other gasses produced by the natural exchange of ozone gasses as they lose their excess electrons.

There is no way that all the horses in use before the internal combustion engine made an amount of methane that is equally damaging as the co2 and other gases we produce in our industries which fabricate those conveniences in life to which even our poorest are entitled.

Or maybe this is a circular argument that belongs in a circular filing cabinet and the politicians need to get out of the way of those productive members of our societies that wish to continue working to produce the goods and services that can be taxed legitimitly without all this grasping at straws.

Next thing you know the "scientist" will proclaim that there are too many humans on earth and that mass sterilization and licensed reproduction is the only way to save ourselves from global climate based holocost. Oops sorry that was proposed already.

Or we could put our faith in God and trust that when he gave us dominion over this planet and all its resources he knew what he was doing, or are ideas of God quaint, old fashioned completely out of vouge now. What would the church have done 500 years ago if Gallileo had suggested that one day man would make Gods planet uninhabitable as it revolved around the sun? Would it have been worse than what they did to him for suggesting the sun does not revolve around the earth?

Conventional wisdom is rarely wise in the context of human history, and I for one will continue my praises of the gods in my traditional manner of burning hydrcarbon fuels as fast as possible and venting the exhaust through megaphones that can be heard for miles. Who says a screaming v8 isn't a joyfull noise unto the lord?

And to return to topic:
My choice would be a Mazda Miata if I had to have a tiny little fuel efficient vehicle. Sorry no idea what its co2 emissions numbers are.

If you read this whole post then you have my sincerest apologies, that's 2 minutes of your life you'll never get back so go out there and do a nice smoky burnout to punish the planet for ever giving us a moment of concern in the first place. Thank you.

[kfae8959]

Glad to see you took the time to read the sources we mentioned before posting that...

Galileo Galilei hadn't been born 500 years ago, so the Roman church couldn't have done anything to him. I've no idea what you think went on, but if you would like to know about what happened to him once he had been born, grown up, and had appeared to tell his patrons in the University of Padua that they were idiots, and what the theological implications of that were, then ask me: I am, for once, qualified to answer.

Our poorest aren't entitled to anything. Although conditions have improved somewhat over that last 20 years, there are still some 925 million undernourished and malnourished people in the world. I wonder what the residents of the Congo and Tchad would say to us about the food that we throw away each day?

My Mazda MX5 (US = Miata) is rated at 215 grammes of carbon dioxide (CO2 seems to be used widely as an abbreviation, but that's only one molecule, not the gas we're concerned about!) per kilometre.

David

[TiJay]

My Mazda MX5 does 30mpg (just!), did someone say economical?? Maybe compared to other cars in the US...

[Renny]

I think Chris is heading down the MINI Cooper D route, judging by the postings on other forums. Although common concerns are clutch life and a narrow power band on the new BMW 1.6 diesel are often discussed. I'm now thinking a ex-demo 1-Series may be an option.

[trkkshotbry]

My Mazda MX5 does 30mpg (just!), did someone say economical?? Maybe compared to other cars in the US...

Yes 30mpg is awesome mileage for a car in the US. My 2001 Trans Am is being generous when she gives me 18mpg on premium brand 93 octane. That stuff is $2.85 / gallon. To be fair my car is slightly modified. Catalytic converters removed, headers, custom exhaust hand bent and fit to the car. Aftermarket cold air intake, K&N filter, composite intake manifold and cutom ecu map and that's al. In return for satisfying her thirst for gasoline she rewards me with reliable service and low 12 second quarter mile times. I put wheels and tires from a 2007 corvette along with stiffer progressive rate springs and she corners like she's on rails.

My bike averages 34mpg on the track and 50mpg on the street if I'm gentle with the loud handle.

I wish I knew how to help you guys over there. Come on out to Oklahoma. Ill introduce you to a bunch of gear heads and let you drive my TA. Just fill up the tank before you give it back to me.

[Gareth]

That stuff is $2.85 / gallon.

Aren't your gallons a different size to ours?

Anyway, we have to buy fuel in litres ... last night I filled up at what is a fairly typical price at the moment, £1.20 / litre for diesel. Ordinary unleaded (95 RON) would have been £1.18 / litre. Using x-rates.com, that's $1.90 and $1.87 respectively. What's the cost of your fuel per litre?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

http://calculator-converter.com/gal_to_ ... _litre.php

1 US gallon = 3.79 litres
1 British pound = 1.58 USD

so £1.18 / litre equates to 1.86 USD / litre and $7.06 / gallon

[ScoobyChris]

I think Chris is heading down the MINI Cooper D route, judging by the postings on other forums. Although common concerns are clutch life and a narrow power band on the new BMW 1.6 diesel are often discussed. I'm now thinking a ex-demo 1-Series may be an option.

The demo Cooper D had the BMW 1.6 diesel and it picked up smartly and kept going to the red line, so no real issues about a narrow power band (although it's about 3k rpm down on the Panda ). Very smooth power delivery too like a big torquey N/A engine rather than the on/off surge of diesels of old. Can't comment on the clutch life though.

The 1-series was a bit less inspiring in 116d and 118d guise and I think if I was after one, I'd be going for either the 120d or 123d.

Chris