Stop-start system

[GJD]

Isn't it illegal to leave a car with the engine runnning?

Only on the road AFAIK. I don't think it's a problem on your drive (if you have one) for example.

[Renny]

I think some of the newer cars don't even have a key. I encountered a Renault a few years ago that had a card of some sort, and I can't remember to what extent that worked exactly like a key, but I don't think it did.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Ah but electrics on Renaults are a complete mystery to all, including those who are supposed to be able to repair them. I've heard that some do not indeed have a key to start, but I've heard of more that won't start, even with a key

[TripleS]

I think some of the newer cars don't even have a key. I encountered a Renault a few years ago that had a card of some sort, and I can't remember to what extent that worked exactly like a key, but I don't think it did.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Ah but electrics on Renaults are a complete mystery to all, including those who are supposed to be able to repair them. I've heard that some do not indeed have a key to start, but I've heard of more that won't start, even with a key

Well at least that should help them to stay safe.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[mzje]

Hmm interesting - I have this stop-start system on my mini and wish I could turn it off completely every time not just each time I get in the car.

I've noticed it doesnt stop though if its below 5c (or maybe 3!) and if you leave it for a while - especially with the lights on/etc it seems to start it again before you put it back in gear.

[morsing]

Isn't it illegal to leave a car with the engine runnning?

Only on the road AFAIK. I don't think it's a problem on your drive (if you have one) for example.

Why only on the road? If anything it's more of a nuisance to other people having it idling on your drive. Or do you mean actually physically removing yourself from the car? Still can't see why it should be any more allowed on the drive.

[michael769]

Don't know of any law which would prohibit you leaving (vacating) your car on your private drive with the engine running. The more important factor is the attitude of your insurance company when it's stolen.

If your car gets stolen when left unattended the keys are left inside, even on a private drive - you can forget about getting a penny from the insurers.

In some parts of the country, this winter, criminals have been scouting residential areas in the early mornings looking for cars being left to heat up. I personally know of at least 12 that have been lifted this way - and I have no doubt that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Lurking near post boxes, newsagents and petrol station forecourts are another favourite for this type of theft.

[TripleS]

If your car gets stolen when left unattended the keys are left inside, even on a private drive - you can forget about getting a penny from the insurers.

That's what I assumed.
What about this scenario? I start the car , leave it running, then get out & lock it with the spare key. I then go in the house for a cup of tea.

That sounds like adequate protection against theft, but does this work OK on cars fitted with an imobiliser? If you lock the car with the spare key, would the engine stop running? In any case, from an engine well-being point of view, it's not good to start a car from cold and let it warm up by idling. For a good many years now I've understood that the best thing to do is drive off immediately, but treat the machinery gently until it is reasonably warmed up. This is what I always do now. If you can't drive off immediately (due to iced up windscreen etc.) the engine is best kept at a fast idle - maybe something like 1200/1500 rpm - until you can drive off.

With regard to the legality of cars left running but unoccupied, my understanding has been that this is OK on private land like your drive, but it is not acceptable on public roads; and I thought the reason was more related to safety concerns rather than nuisance value or the risk of theft.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Gareth]

I start the car , leave it running, then get out & lock it with the spare key. I then go in the house for a cup of tea.

It's relatively cheap to replace a broken window, so I don't think the car being locked would be much of a disincentive to a thief -- I'd be surprised if an insurance company would be happy to pay out on that kind of loss.

[michael769]

That's what I assumed.
What about this scenario? I start the car , leave it running, then get out & lock it with the spare key. I then go in the house for a cup of tea.

It's the just as bad. Newer cars are pretty hard to steal without the keys so getting to the keys is the average car thief's #1 priority. It only takes a few seconds to put a hammer (and they all carry one!) through a side window grab the keys, release the deadlock, open the door, restart the engine and away. Unlike you they don't particularly care if the windscreen is clear or not.

The line taken by all insurers is simple - for the theft cover to be in force the keys must be removed from the car when it is unattended.

[TripleS]

Right - scrub what I said about a car locked but left with engine running probably being adequately safe from theft. Clearly it ain't.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[waremark]

I once had a car insured via Adrian Flux. The application asked how many keys there were for the car, and clearly stated that in the event of a theft claim you would have to provide them with all the keys or the claim would not be accepted. I worried what would happen in the event of a hijack!

[MGF]

Theft by force isn't usually an issue for insurance companies...

It is not uncommon now for people to burgle houses and only steal car keys...

[GJD]

Isn't it illegal to leave a car with the engine runnning?

Only on the road AFAIK. I don't think it's a problem on your drive (if you have one) for example.

Why only on the road?

Because I know of a law that prohibits it on the road (rule 239) but I don't know of any law that prohibits it on a private drive.

When I said, "I don't think it's a problem...", I meant that from the point of view of legality, as per your question.

[michael769]

Theft by force isn't usually an issue for insurance companies...

It is not uncommon now for people to burgle houses and only steal car keys...

That is correct. If the keys are obtained by breaking into a locked building, by force, threat of force or by fraud (but not if you give a prospective purchaser the keys for a unaccompanied test drive) you are still covered. Of course the insurer will require evidence that the theft/fraud has been reported to the police.

[TripleS]

GJD - I like your reference to rule 239.

Almost everybody now seems to leave headlights on when stopped at the roadside. They deserve to end up with flat batteries(1), except they probably leave the engine running as well.

(1) In the 'good old days' they would have done. They'd have had to do a bit of push starting.

Best wishes all,
Dave.