When it says BUSES ONLY, it means BUSES ONLY

[Tony Hoyle]

The bus pulls up and pedestrians cross in front of it. They can't see the tailgater as he's hidden behind the bus, and he pulls out without looking and promptly runs them over.

This isn't theoretical - I've seen pretty much the same on the pelican crossing around here (in that case the tailgater also ran a red light, but that seems to be par for the course for these kinds of drivers..). Luckily at that time nobody was killed.

Heck, pedestrians crossing in front of buses is one of the things that a good driver should be looking out for, because it's not uncommon at all... and in a pedestrianised area (where you can reasonably expect that the traffic will be slow moving buses and taxis who will be *expecting* pedestrians, not suicidal chelsea tractor owners) it's all the more likely.

A 10 year old isn't responsible for their actions (and at 10 I probably did a few stupid things as well). A 4x4 driver is very responsible and it's better to stop them now than clean up afterwards. Fines don't stop them.. after all what's £60 when they paid 200 times that for the car? Points might, eventually. Queue lots of angry letters to the daily mail complaining that the police should be going after 'real criminals' and the old 'i need the car to do my job' gambit.

Notice that in one of the videos one woman had a child in the back. She seemed concerned *after* failing to outrun the barrier, but curiously not before wilfully putting the child in danger. I'm not sure there *is* a punishment too extreme for such behaviour (well OK maybe bringing back the death penalty for traffic offences might be a *bit* extreme).

[Gareth]

I'm pretty much with ipsg on this.

I think we're looking at it all wrong. Why is there a route that the bus can use but other vehicles must not? If its because the area is a pedestrian precinct, then why are we allowing buses to use it?

Buses are frequently a danger to more vulnerable road users, and pedestrians will be safer if all motorised vehicles are excluded.

If these are used where pedestrians are not given free rein, then what is so precious in these circumstances that the normal methods of control cannot be used?

If the bollards are really a good idea, why shouldn't they be used on the motorway sections which now have lanes designated for buses?

[Gareth]

I've just had another look at the clip and to my mind the second vehicle attempting to follow a bus into the restricted zone, the black 4x4 or people carrier, was clearly not tail-gating the bus. Are some people getting a bit carried away with their prejudices?

I'm surprised that the thread has reached four pages and no-one has commented about the unsafe behaviour of the first bus driver; starting to pull away while a passenger was getting off.

[Tony Hoyle]

If the bollards are really a good idea, why shouldn't they be used on the motorway sections which now have lanes designated for buses?

I guess it's down to speed (since the bus would have to stop to wait for them), otherwise they would be used. Plus you don't get pedestrians on a motorway.. a camera can deal with them after the fact.

It's the same reasoning why on some car parks they have one-way entrances - if you try to go the wrong way you stand a good chance of damaging the car. It's not an unusual method of traffic control at all - every town around here is festooned with them.

[Gareth]

I think there must be a degree of confusion on the part of the people who try to jump the barriers - I wonder why there are some cars permitted the other side of the barrier. (See very beginning of the clip).

The confusement is born out of idleness usually. I want to get just that bit nearer the shops. Or it's a long way around town on the ring road. Lets just nip through here.

I don't believe that anyone has satisfactorily answered ipsg's point, that there are cars parked in the restricted zone. For all we know, it could be just as likely that certain additional vehicles are permitted to enter, and that the system sometimes fails.

Perhaps there is another way in for cars, but I'm not sure that is the case since all the parked vehicles seem to be facing away from the bollards end of the restricted zone.

Should we be so quick to avoid giving people the benefit of the doubt?

[Tony Hoyle]

I'm surprised that the thread has reached four pages and no-one has commented about the unsafe behaviour of the first bus driver; starting to pull away while a passenger was getting off.

All buses do that - they're on time constraints. He didn't start moving until he had one foot on the ground so there's no danger really... in fact I'd be surprised if he waited - they normally only do that for prams or old people.

The second driver was still obviously trying to sneak in after the bus.. they were accelerating as they hit the barrier, after passing all the signs, etc. They were just a bit slower off the mark than the first one.

Barriers are pretty much a last resort. The reason there are now so many of them is that other methods have failed.

[Tony Hoyle]

I don't believe that anyone has satisfactorily answered ipsg's point, that there are cars parked in the restricted zone. For all we know, it could be just as likely that certain additional vehicles are permitted to enter, and that the system sometimes fails.

To the best of my knowledge there should be no cars there at all - that whole road is a taxi/bus lane (the barriers are halfway down it). Traders have a pass and if the shot was taken in the early morning then they could be simply loading, or maybe some of them leave their cars there... Early morning also explains why it's so quiet.

It's not somewhere you can end up accidentally. Lost, possibly, but lost people tend to notice things like no entry signs...*


* Maybe some *are* that stupid... I still remember the one who parked in the middle of the pedestrianised area then decided to go shopping... It was jaw dropping...

Also thinking.. last time I knew someone who had to get past one of these they didn't appear to have to do anything, they just drove up to it and they started dropping... wonder how that worked.. camera operated perhaps?

[MGF]

The problem is that many people are aware that tailgating works so inevitably some will try it (although I question the mentality of anyone who would try it on a rising bollard).

The authorities are aware of this and should do as much as is reasonably practical to prevent tailgating. In my view there should be a speed hump before the bollards so it is not possible to take a run-up.

Another solution woud be to stop the authorised traffic just past the bollards by traffic controls and allowing them to continue once the bollards have raised behind them.


The 'Tony Martin school of self-defence' advocates the use of deadly force against burglars. The logic being they get what they deserve.

Although most people's reaction to the stupidity displayed in the above link is that the drivers get what they deserve you have to question whether or not it is consistent with what risk we can expose those committing minor traffic offences to generally.

[nuster100]

The problem is that many people are aware that tailgating works so inevitably some will try it (although I question the mentality of anyone who would try it on a rising bollard).

The authorities are aware of this and should do as much as is reasonably practical to prevent tailgating. In my view there should be a speed hump before the bollards so it is not possible to take a run-up.

I like that idea

The problem is that many people are aware that tailgating works so Although most people's reaction to the stupidity displayed in the above link is that the drivers get what they deserve you have to question whether or not it is consistent with what risk we can expose those committing minor traffic offences to generally.

Whilst I agree that the offences are minor, I think its the mentality is what we need to change.

I am sure those cars didnt make an exception to their normal driving just for that set of bollards!

I am sure it is more likley that they beleive it is fine for them to be able to park that little closer to the shops. Very much like the fools who park in disabled bays just to get closer to the store.

A letter through the post-box isnt going to change that, they will just be annoyed they got caught.

Sadly the only thing IMHO that will make them change their ways is a fairly violent jolt. Thats not a memory you forget easily.

It remindes me of one of my old friends, it took him hitting a 4x4 side on @ 55mph to get him to slow down.

It was the memory of how much worse things could have been that made him change his ways.

Jay

[Nigel]

The biggest cause of confusion I've seen is in Cambridge where the bollards are there to allow buses and taxis past, but only local taxis are able to get the tag to lower the bollards.

Actually the biggest confusion is the look on student's faces as they decide whether they can stand on top of the bollard and ride it back up. They don't like 100kilos of rower on them.

Why should taxi's be allowed into a bollarded area ?

[Roadcraft]

Here's another one to split your sides at....

http://www.break.com/index/another_car_ ... _pole.html

[Big Err]

I think we're looking at it all wrong. Why is there a route that the bus can use but other vehicles must not? If its because the area is a pedestrian precinct, then why are we allowing buses to use it?

In certain semi pedestrianised areas the goal is to create not only a safer area but improve the environment by removing the majority of traffic. One bus passing through a designated lane within the zone every ten or so minutes does not create the same level of danger/noise or pollution as waves of traffic passing through. This system operates in Newcastle Upon Tynes city centre.

The rising bollards/barriers etc are there because to some motorists the signs 'don't' refer to them or are invisible and unfortunately only a pyshical barrier will stop them.

For those who feel the use of the bollard is well out of place, do you suggest we remove the barriers from car parks, bridge crossings (like the Forth and Severn)? Does the same argument apply?

Eric

[Nigel]

I'm still wondering why a taxi should be allowed inside a bollarded area ?....anyone ?

[Big Err]

I'm still wondering why a taxi should be allowed inside a bollarded area ?....anyone ?

Taxis form part of the public transport network and as such sometimes get access to such areas.

Eric

[SammyTheSnake]

I'm still wondering why a taxi should be allowed inside a bollarded area ?....anyone ?

Taxis form part of the public transport network and as such sometimes get access to such areas.

Eric

Indeed, I've yet to see a bus lane that doesn't also allow taxis to use it. Presumably the same rationale prevails.

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny