IAM & RoSPA

[TripleS]

In other words, HPC members are more inclined to be tearaways - very skilled and responsible tearaways of course - but what some would regard as tearaways all the same.

....and that is not said in a spirit of criticsm at all, honestly.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

And that attitude is exactly the one that most people seem to have (probably due in part to the name) about HPC, along with the one that seems to equate membership with spending the GDP of large African states on motor vehicles, driving along lighting Cuban cigars with £50 notes. You've been in the passenger seat (admittedly snoring on one occasion) with a number of HPC members and 'tearaway' is about as far from the truth as you can get. Take your stick out of the pot...

Oh come off it Dave. Have you had a bad day?

It rather depends on what is meant by tearaway. I made it clear that I was not using it in a critical way. Perhaps thinking in terms of positive and spirited driving would be better.

If my occasional use of stick and pot have to go, I go with them.

....and I deny the snoring. It was merely a brief quiet snooze.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[vonhosen]

In other words, HPC members are more inclined to be tearaways - very skilled and responsible tearaways of course - but what some would regard as tearaways all the same.

....and that is not said in a spirit of criticsm at all, honestly.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

And that attitude is exactly the one that most people seem to have (probably due in part to the name) about HPC, along with the one that seems to equate membership with spending the GDP of large African states on motor vehicles, driving along lighting Cuban cigars with £50 notes. You've been in the passenger seat (admittedly snoring on one occasion) with a number of HPC members and 'tearaway' is about as far from the truth as you can get. Take your stick out of the pot...

Oh come off it Dave. Have you had a bad day?

It rather depends on what is meant by tearaway. I made it clear that I was not using it in a critical way. Perhaps thinking in terms of positive and spirited driving would be better.

If my occasional use of stick and pot have to go, I go with them.

....and I deny the snoring. It was merely a brief quiet snooze.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I thought it was a case of you closing your eyes so that you could judge whether the commentary was descriptive enough that you could visualise the road ahead & then be able to anticipate any movement of the vehicle as it was sufficiently ahead of the drive, not being at all historical (I am going to....., not I did because.)

[Gareth]

I thought it was a case of you closing your eyes so that you could judge whether the commentary was descriptive enough that you could visualise the road ahead & then be able to anticipate any movement of the vehicle as it was sufficiently ahead of the drive, not being at all historical (I am going to....., not I did because.)

Unless it has happened more than once ... I thought he'd died, he was that quiet

I certainly wasn't hanging about, and the other passenger wasn't sure about the amount of life in the back either! I can't tell you how relieved I was when I found I hadn't given him a heart attack

[Porker]

Hello James
I have said before that I think IAM and RoSPA groups would benefit if they had an HPC member in a useful position on their committees to try and pass on this enthusiasm both to associates and to members who have already passed their test and are looking to improve further.

There are many HPC members who are active in the IAM and RoADAR at various levels.

It is not unreasonable to suggest that the level of enthusiasm for driving in its own right is one of the distinguishing factors between the IAM/RoADAR and HPC groups. Not that I'm complaining - I'd far rather a non-enthusiast did something than nothing to improve their driving.

[James]

Maybe we could dress Dave up to be Blind Ted?

[TripleS]

....and I deny the snoring. It was merely a brief quiet snooze.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I thought it was a case of you closing your eyes so that you could judge whether the commentary was descriptive enough that you could visualise the road ahead & then be able to anticipate any movement of the vehicle as it was sufficiently ahead of the drive, not being at all historical (I am going to....., not I did because.)

Thank you Von. At last somebody has found a splendid explanation.

Actually it's too late though; I've already owned up. Honest to a fault, but there we go.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

I thought it was a case of you closing your eyes so that you could judge whether the commentary was descriptive enough that you could visualise the road ahead & then be able to anticipate any movement of the vehicle as it was sufficiently ahead of the drive, not being at all historical (I am going to....., not I did because.)

Unless it has happened more than once ... I thought he'd died, he was that quiet

I certainly wasn't hanging about, and the other passenger wasn't sure about the amount of life in the back either! I can't tell you how relieved I was when I found I hadn't given him a heart attack

Hey steady on, this is getting terribly serious. Heart attacks and snuffing it indeed!

There was only one instance of me snoozing, which was a pretty poor show, but I have apologised a time or two for that.

Anyhow I don't know about the 'not hanging about' aspect - it certainly didn't seem unduly rushed. IIRC it felt fairly leisurely, so there! I don't know now whether that's good or bad - you lot confuse me.

Best wishes all,
Dave..

[TripleS]

Oh come off it Dave. Have you had a bad day?

It rather depends on what is meant by tearaway. I made it clear that I was not using it in a critical way. Perhaps thinking in terms of positive and spirited driving would be better.

Noun
S: (n) tearaway (a reckless and impetuous person)
Adjective
S: (adj) hotheaded, impulsive, impetuous, madcap, tearaway, brainish (characterized by undue haste and lack of thought or deliberation) "a hotheaded decision"; "liable to such impulsive acts as hugging strangers"; "an impetuous display of spending and gambling"; "madcap escapades"; (`brainish' is archaic)

Given the above definitions, which while I don't doubt for a second that you meant something entirely different, I think you can understand the response. And no, I wasn;t having a bad day - you can normally tell depending on whether the entire post is made up of liberal use of asterisks

And I certainly don't hug strangers either

Good, I am immensely relieved.

[Goon show mode]
Harm can come to a young lad like that!
[/Goon Show mode]

OK, the term 'tearaway' was perhaps not the best - but I think you know what I actually meant.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Roadcraft]

Where's my friend 'Roadcraft' when we need him? He'll have the answer.

Thought he was RoSPA?

You're right...I've only examined for RoSPA..and still do.

My IAM connection was just as the local senior observer...(as the examiners job was being held on securely by a retired copper..who wasn't going to let go of the reins for a " young whipper snapping up-to-date traffic cop" like me ! haha

My view is that IAM pass is equivalent to a RoSPA silver.

Going on from that... I can't understand how an advanced driving body can be satisfied with a "one test lasts for life".....

In addition, the common goal about getting people ready for test in the shortest possible time is also something that concerns me....

I'm firmly in believe that RoSPA is the better of the two when it comes to the whole package. That takes into account the grading system, the 3 year re-tests and other points....

[Roadcraft]

What would be the main difference between a PC1 (or equivalent) and a typical IAM/RoADAR member?

They are totally different animals... I like to think of it as comparing a fighter pilot with a civilian airline pilot...

The PC1 driver will be trained to drive at very high speeds....when other drivers/vehicles are about.....go through red traffic lights....be proficient in pursuit tactics etc....deal with other vehicles/drivers during blue light runs..etc etc.

It's totally different to any other driving 'club'...be it IAM/RoSPA or...HPC... No amount of money or dodging the 'black balls of membership'..can give you the thrills, experience and exemptions that Police Advanced Driving courses can...

[Nigel]

Talk to me about this Roadcraft.

I find myself dissgreeing with you (as ever ).

As the whole intention of this base level advanced driving is to get someone to look at their driving, and take extra training, what on earth is the point of saying "ok, you've improved a bit, but your still not as good as him/her" ?

As for retesting, it doesn't seem to serve any great service to me, those of us interested enough to carry on will do so regardless, I don't know any numbers, but I'd imagine a similar percentage of people walk away from either group having reached whatever standard.

I think your comment of an IAM pass is the same as Rospa silver is meant in a kind way, but doesn't hold any water, as you can't possibly know, the IAM doesn't grade in such an obvious manner as bronze silver or gold.

There is nothing wrong with a re-check of some kind, but re-testing seems a bit too far, once you've reached a standard you'll generally get better with practice.

I sometimes think we take this advanced driving a bit too seriously, we treat it in a similar vein to your job training.

[Roadcraft]

Talk to me about this Roadcraft.

I find myself dissgreeing with you (as ever ).

That's not a problem at all Nigel....I love you to disagree with me

As the whole intention of this base level advanced driving is to get someone to look at their driving, and take extra training, what on earth is the point of saying "ok, you've improved a bit, but your still not as good as him/her" ?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean the RoSPA grading system or do you mean the comparison to police driving? I'm guessing you mean the grading. Well I'm afraid grading appears in almost everything we do in life...from choice of seating on planes, star ratings at hotels to exam grades for children.

As for retesting, it doesn't seem to serve any great service to me, those of us interested enough to carry on will do so regardless, I don't know any numbers, but I'd imagine a similar percentage of people walk away from either group having reached whatever standard.

Perhaps, but when people know they have to keep a certain standard to gain the certificate again...there's an emphasis to keep your standards up and not slack too much.

In addition, re-testing allows faults and errors that may have creeped into your driving unnoticed to be hightlight to you.....thus allowing you to improve and adapt.

I think your comment of an IAM pass is the same as Rospa silver is meant in a kind way, but doesn't hold any water, as you can't possibly know, the IAM doesn't grade in such an obvious manner as bronze silver or gold.

It's not meant to be kind....I'm not known for false kindness ....it's based on many conversations with fellow examiners..and also sitting next to drivers who have completed training from both organisations.

I sometimes think we take this advanced driving a bit too seriously, we treat it in a similar vein to your job training.

I have to agree with you there.... Like many other subjects...there's a danger of taking thing to far...for unnecessary reasons.... civilian advanced driving is one of those such subjects.

I think that's why people compare to police driving etc..... I used be involved with advanced motorbike riding at one time..and the amount of white BMW machines....and hi-viz jackets in such a small area was quite comical..

[MGF]

in addition, the common goal about getting people ready for test in the shortest possible time is also something that concerns me....

This seems to be a concern about the IAM among some observers in my group.

However the group itself does appear to have resisted any such pressure as they seem to recommend putting in for the test when the associate is, in their view, well beyond the minimum test standard.

This is probably reflected in the group's 96% pass rate.

[Nigel]

in addition, the common goal about getting people ready for test in the shortest possible time is also something that concerns me....

This seems to be a concern about the IAM among some observers in my group.

However the group itself does appear to have resisted any such pressure as they seem to recommend putting in for the test when the associate is, in their view, well beyond the minimum test standard.

This is probably reflected in the group's 96% pass rate.

Its the same with my local group, although I'm unsure of the pass rate....I'll have to ask

[Roadcraft]

This is probably reflected in the group's 96% pass rate.

I'm sure you're right..and the quality of the candidate at test stage is very good..

However, i'm of the opinion that some examiners around the country....have speech impediments...and are unable to say the word 'fail'...

I might be in my cynical grumpy mode...but i'm sure there's an element of truth in what i say...