ADUK Archive

martine wrote:Yes - we've had people sign up for a drivecheck who were sufficiently poor for us to recommend some time with an ADI before they consider taking a 'Skill for Life' course. I think in the cases I know of, they were elderly people who wanted reassurance their driving was safe and had no intention of progressing to 'advanced'. It's not something I am comfortable with drivecheck being used for - I really think someone who is perhaps doubtful should have some sort of 'official' check on their driving not using unpaid, non-approved (in DSA terms) observers to perhaps explain to someone the time has come for them to hand in their keys...

Yes, this does happen. We've had people 'sent' by their employer who fall into a similar category. They don't really want to embrace new ways of doing things: what they really need is to brush up on the basics.

I wish there was another place people could go for this kind of help, because they can be square pegs in round holes at IAM/Rospa. Which isn't ideal for either party. The associate is burdened with techniques they aren't ready for, and there is pressure on observers/examiners to keep the demands at a level where 'anyone can scrape through'.

Or maybe we should be offering 'better driving' as an alternative qualification to the full on 'advanced driving'?

Zadocbrown wrote "....and there is pressure on observers/examiners to keep the demands at a level where 'anyone can scrape through'. Where did you get this idea from? 'cause it's just not true, from an Examiners perspective that is.

Fenland Flyer wrote:Zadocbrown wrote "....and there is pressure on observers/examiners to keep the demands at a level where 'anyone can scrape through'. Where did you get this idea from? 'cause it's just not true, from an Examiners perspective that is.

and from an observers perspective as well !!

If my associates 'just scrape through' then I am not doing my task correctly.........

ROG wrote:

Fenland Flyer wrote:Zadocbrown wrote "....and there is pressure on observers/examiners to keep the demands at a level where 'anyone can scrape through'. Where did you get this idea from? 'cause it's just not true, from an Examiners perspective that is.

and from an observers perspective as well !!

If my associates 'just scrape through' then I am not doing my task correctly.........

Quite. And to ensure that they achieve a comfortable pass in spite of test nerves they have to be even further above the appropriate standard when not on test.

I have tended to keep going with associates for as long as I thought I was helping them to achieve a worthwhile level of further progress, even if they were already above pass standard.

I wasn't suggesting deliberate 'grade inflation' at an individual level. Certainly not suggesting that examiners/observers aim for as little improvement as possible!

But from a wider perspective the standard has to be set somewhere, and surely the height at which the bar is set is influenced by the target audience? Realistically the qualification has to obtainable in a reasonable time frame or people won't bother. If we were only looking to deal with long time enthusiasts we could probably set the standard a good deal higher than it is. On the other hand, if we want to get involved with elderly/inexperienced/less enthusiastic drivers don't we have to temper our own aspirations with a touch of pragmatism?

Where I'm coming from is that although I personally enjoy teaching what might be described as a 'bells and whistles roadcraft' style of driving, I'm very much aware that it's not what every associate aspires to. And since they are not actually required to drive like that in everyday life I have to question whether I should be insisting on it.

Quite a few associates would, in my view, be better suited to the development of a less roadcraft orientated style. For example, people who just want to be safer without making drastic changes, or elderly drivers who may find it difficult to take things back to basics. At present, these people are squeezed through the same tube as more enthusiastic drivers who want to learn to drive 'properly', and I was just questioning whether this is really a good thing.

zadocbrown wrote:Quite a few associates would, in my view, be better suited to the development of a less roadcraft orientated style. For example, people who just want to be safer without making drastic changes, or elderly drivers who may find it difficult to take things back to basics. At present, these people are squeezed through the same tube as more enthusiastic drivers who want to learn to drive 'properly', and I was just questioning whether this is really a good thing.

Does the Rospa grading approach help here, so that the less able can be satisfied with lower grades, and the more enthusiastic can go for Gold?

zadocbrown wrote:Quite a few associates would, in my view, be better suited to the development of a less Roadcraft orientated style. For example, people who just want to be safer without making drastic changes, or elderly drivers who may find it difficult to take things back to basics. At present, these people are squeezed through the same tube as more enthusiastic drivers who want to learn to drive 'properly', and I was just questioning whether this is really a good thing.

Agreed. It may not be a good thing for everybody, but it would complicate things even further if you had to have different training and test regimes for different groups of drivers. Is that woth doing, or would it be better to try and make the existing regime more flexible?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

TripleS wrote:

zadocbrown wrote:Quite a few associates would, in my view, be better suited to the development of a less Roadcraft orientated style. For example, people who just want to be safer without making drastic changes, or elderly drivers who may find it difficult to take things back to basics. At present, these people are squeezed through the same tube as more enthusiastic drivers who want to learn to drive 'properly', and I was just questioning whether this is really a good thing.

Agreed. It may not be a good thing for everybody, but it would complicate things even further if you had to have different training and test regimes for different groups of drivers. Is that woth doing, or would it be better to try and make the existing regime more flexible?

You don't have to get to test standard (or even take a test) to benefit from the advice given.

I don't know what the status is with observers in the AD organisations but would it be possible to add an extra part - a 'safe driving' certificate where those that do not have any desire to do AD may come to AD groups and get pointers towards safe driving and when the observer considers them safe, a certificate is offered

Probably a daft idea with too many hurdles............

I'm about to embark on RoADAR, after becoming an Associate of the Thames Valley Group earlier in the year.

They're running their series of weekly lectures for September at Sulhamstead Police College, Theale, starting tomorrow.

Out of Interest, any other associates / members of TVG here?

SeanP wrote:I'm about to embark on RoADAR, after becoming an Associate of the Thames Valley Group earlier in the year. Out of Interest, any other associates / members of TVG here?

I'm not far off, but I'm with North London and South Herts. You must be quite close to me?

David

kfae8959 wrote:I'm not far off, but I'm with North London and South Herts. You must be quite close to me?
David

Hi David,

Probably closer than you think: I'm near Amersham, and I seem to be 'in the gaps' of a number of local groups.

I had arranged a drive with "T-CAD" (Three Counties AD), based in Bedford; but they rescinded the day before saying I was "too far" (surely that's my judgement?). I've considered your group, but I think it was a bit 'too far' into Herts? Hence ended up at TVG, which is not really 'that' close, being t'other side of Reading!

SeanP wrote:Out of Interest, any other associates / members of TVG here?

There's a chap I took out on Sunday who has just signed up to TVG. He seemed to think he wouldn't be invited to the first date of the course as it was such short notice, but he was hopeful about attending the rest

Chris