RoSPA and IAM Again

[GJD]

I think the main difference is that MSM implies that once the mirror check is done there is no more need for it. Whilst IPSGA, the I is the base stone of the system and all the other parts fit into it, implying that the information needs to be constantly updated.

That's the main difference I see too (and I'm not sure whether it's that great a difference).

When I first encountered IPSGA, I didn't have any strong feelings about the PSGA part of it, but I did like the way Information is treated in the system for two reasons: firstly the way it continues to be important throughout PSGA and you are expected (and allowed) to modify and adapt your plan part way through the hazard or manoeuvre if new information is available, and secondly because it doesn't make any mention of how to give or find information - it is your job as a driver to assess what sources of information and means of communication are available and use them as appropriate and as required.

Like others have suggested, I wonder whether the OP suffered from a tutor/observer (or examiner) who was a little more rigid than necessary.

[zadocbrown]

I think the main difference is that MSM implies that once the mirror check is done there is no more need for it.

But that's not really what's intended is it?

Having begun the MSM sequence you are still be expected to be aware of changing circumstances, and if you fail to spot something important you will fail just as surely as if you'd never checked at all. Indeed, the DSA approved expansion of MSM (MSPSL) does specify an additional mirror check as part of 'L'.

So MSM performed correctly should really satisfy the information phase of IPSGA as well.

It seems to me that the difference is less in what the driver does, and more in how it is introduced to them. MSM is mostly used for novices who need clear instructions about the physical sequence of events required - the hope is that they will come to a more fully developed understanding in due course.

IPSGA is mostly used with drivers who have enough experience to comprehend a framework that is more complex but also a more complete representation of what is required. In the ideal world, however, the results would be much the same regardless of which initialism was used.

[kfae8959]

(When I was first taught 'Advanced Driving' I learned the mnemonic 'Can My Safety Be Given Away'.)

OK, I'll have a guess:

Consider mirror, signal; brake; gear; accelerate?

David

[jcochrane]

OK, I'll have a guess:

Consider mirror, signal; brake; gear; accelerate?

David

C= Course.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

How about MSPMSMGMMMA ?

[jcochrane]

How about MSPMSMGMMMA ?

OK here's my guess. Mirror, signal, position, mirror, speed, mirror, gear, mirror, manoeuvre , mirror, accelerate.

How about...CMSSMSGHA I think I've quoted it correctly, but it is from some years ago.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

How about MSPMSMGMMMA ?

OK here's my guess. Mirror, signal, position, mirror, speed, mirror, gear, mirror, manoeuvre , mirror, accelerate.

How about...CMSSMSGHA I think I've quoted it correctly, but it is from some years ago.

Spot on! Of course, "Mirror" may refer to checks of multiple mirrors at one time - e.g. the "mirror" following "manoeuvre" may be a check of both door mirrors for cyclists, motorcyclists, overtaking vehicles, etc. or a check of all three, since in going from one side of the vehicle to the other, it may be just as easy to do them all. It doesn't mention a shoulder check, either.

I'm guessing yours is course, mirror, shoulder check, signal, mirror, speed, gear, horn (considered), acceleration ?

[jcochrane]

How about MSPMSMGMMMA ?

OK here's my guess. Mirror, signal, position, mirror, speed, mirror, gear, mirror, manoeuvre , mirror, accelerate.

How about...CMSSMSGHA I think I've quoted it correctly, but it is from some years ago.

Spot on! Of course, "Mirror" may refer to checks of multiple mirrors at one time - e.g. the "mirror" following "manoeuvre" may be a check of both door mirrors for cyclists, motorcyclists, overtaking vehicles, etc. or a check of all three, since in going from one side of the vehicle to the other, it may be just as easy to do them all. It doesn't mention a shoulder check, either.

I'm guessing yours is course, mirror, shoulder check, signal, mirror, speed, gear, horn (considered), acceleration ?

Very close. Course (deciding on) take up course with Mirror, Signal first. Speed (decide on) adjust with Mirror, Signal first. Gear for speed. Horn or lights. Aceleration For motor bikes a further shoulder check was added immediately after horn.

The original Police System from the 1930's. At least I think I remember it correctly. No I was not around at its inception whatever you might think. However it was the system I learnt and used for my car test at the age of 17.

[ROG]

I have a simpler one - M ..... Move

[vonhosen]

How about...CMSSMSGHA I think I've quoted it correctly, but it is from some years ago.

A little out of tune

Course
Mirror, Signal, Speed
Gear
Mirror, Signal
Horn
Acceleration

[ExadiNigel]

Ah, the simplicity (and thoroughness) of IPSGA!

[fungus]

My brain hurts.

KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Why not just say constant observation.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

How about...CMSSMSGHA I think I've quoted it correctly, but it is from some years ago.

A little out of tune

Course
Mirror, Signal, Speed
Gear
Mirror, Signal
Horn
Acceleration

I'm guessing the multiple signal phases are to allow for hand signals? A slowing down signal followed by a turn signal, for example?

[jcochrane]

Certainly when I first drove hand signals were required at the appropiate points in the system. On the day of your driving test you'd pray it wasn't raining or very cold as the driver's window had to be kept wound down.

[WhoseGeneration]

Reality for so many.
Mirror, "Yes, makeup looks good", or,"I am an Adonis".
Signal, "My right to move".
Manoeuvre, "I go".
"Wot I was taught".