Do driving instructors drive like learners?

[vonhosen]

Maybe not, but perhaps they aren't best placed to judge whether the drivers actions were reasonable.

talking here of emotions not law, would the loss of a child ever be reasonable to a parent?

The emotions would still be there if struck by lightning.

It is a balancing act & that's why I say it's not about the 'top priority'. If it were a member of my family I'd like to think that I could (whilst obviously grieving the loss) be objective about the driving issue. Others who know me claim I'd have no problem doing so, but I hope to never be tested on it.

Would the person being raped expect me to not drive to their aid because there is a risk to myself & others in using the the car ?

Well yes, if it were me I would want assistance, but...

Is that person being raped of anymore importance than anyone else's flesh and blood?

No, but the intent is to get aid to one (minimise risk of harm) whilst not placing others at unnecessary risk of harm. You can't eliminate risk to either totally.

The whole ethos of police driving is to separate your emotions from the driving task, i.e. not to let those emotions, frustration as an example cloud the choices you make, so if the goal is to get to their aid as soon as possible, would that open you up to making incorrect choices? research would suggest it may!

We are emotional animals & our emotions affect our behaviours. Ideally we are aware of this, recognise the onset of emotional change & the potential consequences if left unchecked, as well as having in our armoury adequate intervention & coping strategies to successfully manage them. That still doesn't offer guarantees or remove all risks in travelling by car.

[daz6215]

The emotions would still be there if struck by lightning.

Your not talking about acts of god though, your talking about the actions of another person, their choice!

No, but the intent is to get aid to one (minimise risk of harm) whilst not placing others at unnecessary risk of harm. You can't eliminate risk to either totally.


We are emotional animals & our emotions affect our behaviours. Ideally we are aware of this, recognise the onset of emotional change & the potential consequences if left unchecked, as well as having in our armoury adequate intervention & coping strategies to successfully manage them. That still doesn't offer guarantees or remove all risks in travelling by car.

No it doesn't agreed! , so what coping strategies do you use? If you were on a shout in an urban area what would your main concern be?

[vonhosen]

The emotions would still be there if struck by lightning.

Your not talking about acts of god though, your talking about the actions of another person, their choice!

But just because a person is involved it doesn't mean they are automatically responsible for the death, the feelings of loss however are the same.

No, but the intent is to get aid to one (minimise risk of harm) whilst not placing others at unnecessary risk of harm. You can't eliminate risk to either totally.


We are emotional animals & our emotions affect our behaviours. Ideally we are aware of this, recognise the onset of emotional change & the potential consequences if left unchecked, as well as having in our armoury adequate intervention & coping strategies to successfully manage them. That still doesn't offer guarantees or remove all risks in travelling by car.

No it doesn't agreed! , so what coping strategies do you use? If you were on a shout in an urban area what would your main concern be?

Depends what the call is as to what emotional effect it may have on me (& likely subsequent change in my behaviours as a result). Having recognised that, any intervention/coping strategy will be individual, something that works for you may not work for me. For me I'll immediately think about the most important things in my life & the potential consequences of any adverse outcome on them. I'll then drive trying to do what I can to get to the destination quickly, whilst still safeguarding what is important to me (deflecting me from the negative effect/conflict of any emotional attachment to the call).

[daz6215]

For me I'll immediately think about the most important things in my life & the potential consequences of any adverse outcome on them.

And what would the consequences be?

I'll then drive trying to do what I can to get to the destination quickly, whilst still safeguarding what is important to me (deflecting me from the negative effect/conflict of any emotional attachment to the call).

So is your goal arriving there in one piece or getting there quickly?

[vonhosen]

For me I'll immediately think about the most important things in my life & the potential consequences of any adverse outcome on them.

And what would the consequences be?

Numerous.

I'll then drive trying to do what I can to get to the destination quickly, whilst still safeguarding what is important to me (deflecting me from the negative effect/conflict of any emotional attachment to the call).

So is your goal arriving there in one piece or getting there quickly?

Getting there quickly in one piece & no adverse outcomes for others.

[daz6215]

Numerous.

Like what? Whats the important ones to you?

I'll then drive trying to do what I can to get to the destination quickly, whilst still safeguarding what is important to me (deflecting me from the negative effect/conflict of any emotional attachment to the call)


Getting there quickly in one piece & no adverse outcomes for others.

So which one is more important?

[MGF]

...individuals however choose their levels of acceptable risk within [the law] ... It's minimise the risk relative to their objectives, different people will have different objectives & hence different minimum levels of risk.

How do you define objective?

a) Is overtaking - and consequently increasing risk - (albeit within the law and a subjectively assessed acceptable level of risk) an objective?

b) Or is the desire to arrive at one's destination as quickly as possibly - necessitating overtaking, an objective?

c) Or is the desire not be late for an appointment an objective?

The concept, so far, appears a bit woolly.

[vonhosen]

Numerous.

Like what? Whats the important ones to you?

I'll then drive trying to do what I can to get to the destination quickly, whilst still safeguarding what is important to me (deflecting me from the negative effect/conflict of any emotional attachment to the call)


Getting there quickly in one piece & no adverse outcomes for others.

So which one is more important?

All three facets are important, I can't ignore any.
If I want no risk of a collision in the car, then I can't take the car. By taking the car, I am accepting there is some risk, beyond that I am just attempting to successfully manage that risk.

[daz6215]

Von you should have been a politician, what is the consequence to you if you make the wrong choice?

[TripleS]

Von you should have been a politician, what is the consequence to you if you make the wrong choice?

The consequences could be catastrophic, or they could be relatively insignificant. In such situations I imagine you have to judge many things very quickly, some of which are in conflict; and I doubt if you could do it by consciously evaluating each factor, and then weighing them all and calculating the best course of action.

The best preparation for dealing with that is specialised training and a good deal of experience, I'd guess. The functioning of a political mind has nowt to do with it.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[daz6215]

Von you should have been a politician, what is the consequence to you if you make the wrong choice?

The consequences could be catastrophic, or they could be relatively insignificant. In such situations I imagine you have to judge many things very quickly, some of which are in conflict; and I doubt if you could do it by consciously evaluating each factor, and then weighing them all and calculating the best course of action.

The best preparation for dealing with that is specialised training and a good deal of experience, I'd guess. The functioning of a political mind has nowt to do with it.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

That maybe true, but the context of your journey will be a world away from that of Vons, If it goes wrong for him he may lose potentially more than you!

[daz6215]

The best preparation for dealing with that is specialised training and a good deal of experience,,
Dave.

Lots of drivers have many years of experience, but learn absolutely nothing from it, how many experienced drivers do you see tailgating at high speed? What do they learn from this experience? Nothing!, that its ok to do it because I haven't been caught out by it yet!

[MGF]

...The best preparation for dealing with that is specialised training and a good deal of experience, I'd guess. The functioning of a political mind has nowt to do with it.

But von claims we all create risk over and above the minimum risk necessary for our journey depending on our objective. I didn't think he was justifying himself doing so because of his specialised training or experience.

[GJD]

But von claims we all create risk over and above the minimum risk necessary for our journey depending on our objective. I didn't think he was justifying himself doing so because of his specialised training or experience.

I thought he was saying that we all drive to the minimum risk necessary for our journey, but what each of us regards as the minimum risk necessary in a given situation might be different as it depends on our objectives, beliefs and values.

[waremark]

If you mean that the advanced driving organisations probably are not reaching the worst drivers, then of course that is not necessarily a good thing. However, the fact that they appeal to people who actually want to drive well is a valid reason why they do not need to put too much effort into addressing poor attitudes.

People can display what they want you to see. In a telling environment that is even easier to do. To find out what people 'really' believe, what they truly 'value' & therefore what they'll actually do when away from you, then you have to create an environment that is not judgemental, get them to open up to you & ask rather than tell.....

I see it all the time in others. Saying what they think you want to hear, rather than what they actually believe.

As it happens, that is pretty much what I try to do with my Associates - probe both their attitudes to driving and their motivations for becoming involved in the IAM in a non-judgemental way. Although I may not always get to the truth, it is pretty likely that I generally do, in view of the amount of time we spend together on a 1 to 1 basis.

In my experience, I almost always find positive attitudes to safe driving, and motivations related more to improving their driving than to getting the IAM badge.

What attitudes and motivations do other Observers/Tutors perceive in their Associates? What have been the motivations of those here who have enrolled with the AD organisations (it occurs to me that I had my initial advanced training with a commercial organisation with no view to any badge).

VH, you often talk about values and beliefs. Can you explain, perhaps with examples, what you mean by values and beliefs in this context?