IAM & RoSPA

[Gareth]

What any of that has to do with an advanced motoring organisation is beyond me.

Some people think advanced motoring is primarily about being law abiding, some think it is primarily about employing a consistent safety margin, and others think that both are equally important.

I suspect most people consider some laws more important than others. Most people also consider the extent to which laws are transgressed to be important.

Some people will keep any money they find. Some will hand whatever they find in to the police. Some will keep small amounts but hand in large amounts, the threshhold varying from person to person.

There is a similar range of outlooks and behaviours in advanced driving and advanced riding, just as there is in all human endeavours.

Beyond this, I'm repeatedly told, it's unsafe for organisations to be seen to accept anything other than full adherence to whichever laws impinge on the activities of members of those organisations. The difference between a public view and a private view.

[Gareth]

Are you suggesting that driving on the public road is a game or sport like F1 is?

Taking an advanced driving test clearly is, or at least that's view of a senior IAM observer I came into contact with last summer.

He told me that a candidate should 'make a play' of inspecting the car's exterior after meeting the examiner, pretend to inspect a headlight, wipe away some dust and say something about thinking there may have been a crack in the glass. Clearly a game, and one I refused to play.

[rlmr]

Oh this is fun.... dangle a wee bit mischief and see what pops up ... then go away on holiday whilst folk fight it out.
Is driving a "Game?" You decide .

Definitions of game on the Web:

* a single play of a sport or other contest; "the game lasted two hours"
* a contest with rules to determine a winner; "you need four people to play this game"
* an amusement or pastime; "they played word games"; "he thought of his painting as a game that filled his empty time"; "his life was all fun and games"
* your occupation or line of work; "he's in the plumbing game"; "she's in show biz"
* (games) the score at a particular point or the score needed to win; "the game is 6 all"; "he is serving for the game"
* plot: a secret scheme to do something (especially something underhand or illegal); "they concocted a plot to discredit the governor"; "I saw through his little game from the start"
* bet on: place a bet on; "Which horse are you backing?"; "I'm betting on the new horse"
* willing to face danger
* frivolous or trifling behavior; "for actors, memorizing lines is no game"; "for him, life is all fun and games"

I've had enough of this thread now. Thanks for the repartee. Now looking forward to several weeks driving and motorcycling without any computer access

Take care, have fun, keep it safe smooth and progressive... and arrive alive.

Rennie

Big ERR, make sure things stay sensible in my absence

[Nigel]

Are you suggesting that driving on the public road is a game or sport like F1 is?

Taking an advanced driving test clearly is, or at least that's view of a senior IAM observer I came into contact with last summer.

He told me that a candidate should 'make a play' of inspecting the car's exterior after meeting the examiner, pretend to inspect a headlight, wipe away some dust and say something about thinking there may have been a crack in the glass. Clearly a game, and one I refused to play.

But not this IAM senior observer

I'm all for abiding by the law as part of an advanced driving course, I can't imagine any other way, but that kind of cow pooh goes above my head.

[SammyTheSnake]

I think that one sense in which an AD test (or the DSA one for that matter) is similar to a game is that there are rules which (though based in practical concerns) are at some level arbitrary.

By arbitrary, I don't mean meaningless, merely that there is often a line drawn in the sand which could arguably have been drawn at a subtly (or even dramatically) different point. One of these is obviously legality.

I'd suggest that any test in which flagrant disregard of the law is tolerated has to be criticised on that point, but perhaps there's an argument for some degree of leniency, after all the examiner isn't in his* capacity as a police officer, even if he is currently serving as one.

On the other hand, if the law provides a clear demarcation between "acceptable" and "unacceptable", that's as good a place for the test to draw the line as any. If the rules were that you have to drive at precisely two mph under (or under) the limit, you'd still be exercising the same skills in order to do so, so for the test, they serve the intended purpose of testing those skills.

Several of those definitions of "game" apply to driving, though some clearly don't

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny
* or her, etc.

[Big Err]

if the law provides a clear demarcation between "acceptable" and "unacceptable", that's as good a place for the test to draw the line as any.

Let's not restart that debate