It's a fair cop, 'guv

[stephenperry]

spotted on The Telegraph website motoring section...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/mai ... rjon17.xml

Camera obscurer

Last year my wife and I visited Avebury, in Wiltshire. After exiting a National Trust car park on the A361, we turned left toward the village. No speed limit signs were posted. After about a mile I saw a mobile camera van which I passed at about 40mph. As I went by I saw a 30mph sign that had been obscured by the police van. Two weeks later I received a Notice of Intended Prosecution for exceeding the limit by 9mph. I'm sure I could have put up a convincing defence in court, but didn't want to incur the cost of taking a day or more away from running my business - travelling to court and staying overnight would outweigh the cost of the fine. Also, if you plead not guilty you have to make three appearances in court (one to plead not guilty, one to agree when your trial will take place and one for the trial). The costs can be enormous. These supposed road safety units rip off the motorist in more ways than one. Fortunately, I had a clean licence until then. We spent about £750 during our three-day break but we'll take ourselves and our money elsewhere in future. I have advised our friends to do likewise.
N.D., Kirby Muxloe

and the reply....

Coombes v Director of Public Prosecutions (Court of Appeal, December 20, 2006) established that if a speed limit sign is in any way obscured you cannot be prosecuted for exceeding it, as long as you were below the previously posted limit.

i always thought that speed limit signs were in pairs, one at each side of the road?

[7db]

They usually are, and both must be visible and maintained.

Very very poor form to be obscuring it if enforcing it. Clearly the thing to do is to stop right there and then and call the Police to have the unit moved on...

[stephenperry]

i was thinking more along the lines of why he didn't spot the other unobsured sign telling him it was a 30... come to think of it i've never seen repeater signs for a 30, and they wouldn't be sat at the sign nicking people for speeding over 30 because, as you know, the limit doesn't start until you cross the imaginary line in the road linking the two signs

i suspect it's someone whining about getting caught again

[hardboiled]

The latest IAM magazine shows that the law currently dis-allows repeater signs in 30mph zones. Some areas have apparently got around it by not using red circled signs but by using black on yellow or similar alternative.

Of course the first thing you should look for on any road you're not sure of the speedlimit on is streetlights.

As a comedian I went to see the other week pointed out, Britain is a strange place in that it often likes to keep the limit secret (on motorways was his example).

"What's the limit on a motorway?"
"It's 70, pass it on"

[crr003]

The latest IAM magazine shows that the law currently dis-allows repeater signs in 30mph zones. Some areas have apparently got around it by not using red circled signs but by using black on yellow or similar alternative.

I think repeaters are allowable on roads where the limit is 30, but there are no street lights (<200 yards).

I've got them near me anyway!

[vonhosen]

The latest IAM magazine shows that the law currently dis-allows repeater signs in 30mph zones. Some areas have apparently got around it by not using red circled signs but by using black on yellow or similar alternative.

Of course the first thing you should look for on any road you're not sure of the speedlimit on is streetlights.

As a comedian I went to see the other week pointed out, Britain is a strange place in that it often likes to keep the limit secret (on motorways was his example).

"What's the limit on a motorway?"
"It's 70, pass it on"

But the limit is different on the motorway for different people, so you are giving some duff info telling them it's 70

[Nigel]

This sort of incident winds me up.

How better to promote road safety than obscure a speed limit sign, then nick someone for exceeding the limit, and make the system so bent in favour of the scamera partnerships, so that even when people know the authorities have operated outside of their remit, its just not worth the hassle of taking them on.

The whole speed scamera system stinks, and should be dissbanded.

[hardboiled]

But the limit is different on the motorway for different people, so you are giving some duff info telling them it's 70

He was a comedian not a road safety officer so a longer description would have killed his punchline somewhat

I've driven through Belgium a few times now and I still don't know what the speed limit is on the motorways there as they just use the NSL sign. Yet France, Germany etc manage to tell you the limits in the wet and dry.

[MGF]

If you know you have been caught as you pass it is probably best to stop and take picture of the obstruction. Then write to the authorities with the evidence and your defence.

It is possible the prosecution may be dropped if you have a good chance in Court.

In fact if it isn't then the motive for continuing with it is questionable.

The authorities shouldn't rely on people not having the time or money to defend the prosecution when deciding whether to continue with it.

[GS]

Do many people REALLY have problems not knowing what the speed limit is on a regular basis?

I'm sorry but I find this so hard to understand or accept. I know that a lot of people blame poor signing for their speeding but is it really such a problem???

[hardboiled]

Unless there's a sign every couple of hundred metres telling them then yes they do. Similarly I'd bet that more than half the population don't know the speed limit on an NSL dual carriageway and similar levels don't know that vans and trucks have lower limits in NSLs.

Then of course that remaining that do know what the correct limit is, most of them choose to drive at a speed that they are more comfortable with, be this higher or significantly lower than that which is legally allowed and ignoring the actual conditions in which they are driving.

[Nigel]

Do many people REALLY have problems not knowing what the speed limit is on a regular basis?

I'm sorry but I find this so hard to understand or accept. I know that a lot of people blame poor signing for their speeding but is it really such a problem???

I know what you mean GS, but I can find myself being caught out now & again.

If you miss a sign for some reason (it may be obstructed, it may be positioned around a hazard, I may just miss it I'm only human) it is getting very difficult to "guage" what the limit is, the requirements for repeaters have been withdrawn (so I'm told).

No longer can you look at your surroundings and hazard an educated guess, becuse some safety cretin may have been there before you and had the limit lowered.

You could quite reasonably percive a road to be a 40 mph limit for example, you may then drive along this road in a very reasonable manner, causing no danger to anyone, your chances of being pulled by a pc are quite remote "excuse me sir, did you realise this road has been reclassified as a 30 mph limit ?" etc etc, but your chances of being snapped by a talivan and then ordered to cough up £60 are very high.

But....its all for road safety

[GS]

So drive at 30mph until you know different.

[Nigel]

So drive at 30mph until you know different.

Ah of course...why didn't I think of that

[TripleS]

So drive at 30mph until you know different.

....and be a confounded nuisance to the person behind you who, from local knowledge, knows that it's a 40 limit?

Best wishes all,
Dave.