The Telegraph website requests your views....

[stephenperry]

After responding to his critics, John Whitmore looks forward to a European review of driver training and invites your thoughts and ideas

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/mai ... whit07.xml

[Rick]

Sad as it may sound, i think young people need and want to find there own way. I did it, and i bet most people here did it. Being preached to is the worst way to get a young person to think about their driving. When government or other organisations realise this there may be a small chance of altering this, but i doubt it will ever happen. Whilst we have cars and bikes capable of 200mph (and long may it continue) we are always going to struggle with the training/ skill/ side of things.. the bottom line is and will always be.. ATTITUDE.

If the whole world says to a 17 year old they cant do something what do they do? Well i know what i did!

It is so short sighted and naive to think that young drivers will drive this way. They will drive how they see fit and get killed or kill people, and that is how it is. I have witnessed this first hand more times than i care to remember.

What needs to happpen is some sort of system to make the new driver look cool without actually feeling like they are being talked down to.

[ROG]

Agreed Rick, it takes the young to talk to the young, in most instances, for them to take note. Downside is, for one young person to say to their freinds that they drive like prats takes a lot of guts along with the fear of being sidelined.
I suppose the main hurdle for us to overcome is "how do we make safer driving a COOL thing to do".
One idea might be to have an advert where a young person of one sex is watching the driving habits of the opposite sex and is then asked out by them, only to refuse unless they go by bus

[TripleS]

Rick - I agree with you completely.

I was extremely eager to learn to drive, having been very interested in cars and driving from an early age, and my driving instructors were clearly enthusiasts themselves, and I reckon that was the best way to be. The atmosphere during the lessons was light, bright and very positive, whereas I can't imagine it being like that now for current learners. By comparison I suspect it is now a much more stiff and formal business, which ironically may tend to prevent new drivers from developing the best attitude - i.e. processes involving thinking and reasoning things out for themselves, as there will be a great deal of this to do on their own throughout their entire driving careers.

Obviously there were laws and rules within which we had to work in 1957, but these days there is much more of that, and I suspect the driving climate must now feel much more restricted and stifling to a learner compared with what I encountered, and if I'm right about that I feel it has been a change for the worse. This makes it even more likely that once the test has been passed, and that wonderful new freedom is ours, the restraints will be cast aside, sometimes with terrible results.

With regard to new(ish) young drivers, there must initially be the establishment of some genuine empathy and understanding with them by anyone who seeks to help them to develop what we like to call the right attitude. Talking down to them and instructing/lecturing them simply will not do, otherwise they'll never be able to work together effectiviely.

I fully accept that this may be an extremely difficult thing for most coaches/instructors/tutors to do, but IMHO it simply must be done that way otherwise that vital foundation of trust will never be there - and nothing useful can be constructed without it.

This could be an immensely rewarding sphere of activity for anyone with the right qualities to tackle this, but the rewards would be huge, and I do wish the authorities would embrace this approach and promote it positively.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

Agreed Rick, it takes the young to talk to the young, in most instances, for them to take note. Downside is, for one young person to say to their freinds that they drive like prats takes a lot of guts along with the fear of being sidelined.
I suppose the main hurdle for us to overcome is "how do we make safer driving a COOL thing to do".
One idea might be to have an advert where a young person of one sex is watching the driving habits of the opposite sex and is then asked out by them, only to refuse unless they go by bus

I like to think it not entirely a matter of physical age differences, but more a matter of having a reasonably open mind and a flexible approach, and hopefully still some vestige of a youthful attitude and some understanding by the 'senior' person.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Lynne]

The atmosphere during the lessons was light, bright and very positive, whereas I can't imagine it being like that now for current learners.

Really Dave? You should come on one of my lessons

By comparison I suspect it is now a much more stiff and formal business, which ironically may tend to prevent new drivers from developing the best attitude - i.e. processes involving thinking and reasoning things out for themselves, as there will be a great deal of this to do on their own throughout their entire driving careers.

I do confess to seeing some right grumpy old instructors around and have had pupils come to me with the fear of God in them from previous instructors (hate to say it..have ALL been male).

I do agree totally that learning should be positive and bright in order to attain the best attitude. I, for one couldn't possibly do the job otherwise it would be much too depressing. Don't get me wrong, yes it is hard work for them I like to think I've instilled the right attitude in them but it is hard to get away from the fact that yes they are only teenagers. I really do think PARENTS should be more involved with their children's early drivng career; the amount of pupils I've had but have never, or only met the parents at the door. I even tell prospective youngsters to get their parents to ring me up if they've got any queries but they're not interested and someone in the family is paying me hundreds of pounds to teach a skill. And, sometimes, they ring up wanting the cheapest. I don't do deals I'm afraid. Not even for payment in advance. I am mid-range for my area. Take it or leave it.

With this 'how many hours can you teach me in'/'how much to get me to my test' attitude and parent/s lack of interest at the outset ..well.. they just don't get it. As an instructor I won't commit to this type of pressure. These are the ones I generally don't get though.

[TripleS]

Hello Lynne, thanks for your reply.

I hope I am mistaken about the way I've imagined things to be for new learners now, but I expect there will be some variations in the way different instructors relate to their pupils.

Actually, rather than just be waffling from the sidelines, I would be interested to have a ride in the back of a few driving school cars during some lessons, if I could find instructors and pupils who would be happy with that.

You're a fair distance away, and you might have been joking anyhow, but it's an interesting idea - not out of the question in my mind.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[nuster100]

I have 2 friends at the moment who are learning to drive. Both have said that they are going to go on and do RoSPA after they pass their test.

The insurance discount is a big plus. but I also think that they are able to observe different driving styles and decide that they want to be a safer driver. I also think that they realize that there is a big gap between how they drive on their test and then in the real world. One of the other reason my friends want to do it is that they have been observing the techniques that I use, especially on county roads. (limit points, observation links, off siding etc) and want to incorporate them into their driving style realizing the benefits they will bring.

I think it needs to start with the realization that you learn to drive AFTER you have passed the DSA test. Most people just try and fill their bag of skill before their bag of luck runs out, anyone with a bit of nouse gets some further training.

Jay

[stephenperry]

One idea might be to have an advert where a young person of one sex is watching the driving habits of the opposite sex and is then asked out by them, only to refuse unless they go by bus

they've tried regional TV and radio adverts like that here in the past, two which i can recall - one radio one which was aimed at young drivers, featuring them taking the piss out of one of their pals for losing his licence... it starts off with an answering machine message from a "concerned" friend, when the guy picks up the phone they all shout down the phone at him.... and the other one was a tv advert, part of the "foolspeed" campaign, with two middle aged blokes - one was the "driver" and the other was his "friend", complaining about his driving (shots of him racing at the traffic lights) and not growing up; cut to a disappointed look on the drivers face when he looks across to the pasenger side and sees an empty seat

[Renny]

Lynn,

I agree with your approach. It sounds very similar to how I dealt with things when I was an ADI. After I qualified I was with BSM, so they were not the cheapest and I never entertained the "How few lessons?" approach. Indeed there was two pupils who I recall that I advised should not bother wasting their money as they did not have the right attitude

I was fortunate that after I left BSM, my car training was carried out as an addition to the LGV training that was my day job, so I was not under a lot of pressure to get a huge amount of hours/income per week.

I taught quite a few who were Medics, so had the inteilligence and dresire to drive safely, also a few family members of freinds and most commented that I taught them to drive, not just pass the DSA test. I'm dismayed that parents seem to think all they have to do is pay money to the instructor. After all parents and peers are probably the biggest early influences on driver attitude.

I think the DSA test/qualification needs to be changed. I particularly like the idea that new drivers are limited to lower performance vehicles. This could be relaxed if driving with suitable experienced supervision (to allow them to drive family car with parents or other experienced drivers). I think high speed roads should be part of the test or at least a compulsory part of training, as should practical skid control. The test should be longer and stricter criteria applied. This will of course increase costs and possibly lenghten the time before a driver was able to sit the test, hence getting more experience.

Another possibility would be that learners should have to be supervised for a set number of hours before and after the test. Even though I was able to drive and have a lot of experience manoeuvering a wide range of vehicles well before I was even 17, I did not sit my test until about 8 months after my 17th birthday. That time was spent driving under supervision at every opportunity, not just locally, but even whilst in Yorkshire on holiday and I'm sure I drove part of the way down from Fife. I'm sure this improved my driving as I gained the ability to judge many different situations before I was let loose on my own.

I also thing novices need to have the attitude that driving is a privilge, not a right, also that a car is a deadly peice of equipment and should be treated with respect.

[ROG]

I must admit that the idea of having a seasoned driver next to the newly qualified for a set time after the test is passed sounds great if it could be made law and enforced.

[Rik]

You also have to admit that price also has a big factor in the driving habits.

A 17rd old can pass test and can’t afford the £2000 insurance for a x reg KA worth £900 that he was looking at, result? Brought a clapped out unroadworthy 3 litre scrap car for £50 and drives it. Knowing full well if he crashes, so what it cost £50. and what if he’s pulled over? You see it all the time in the local paper, such and such in court. no licence, no tax, no mot, no insurance £80 fine.
Is it any wonder?