ADUK Archive

The IAM has a rule that states a driver cannot take the advanced driving test if they have a certain amount of points on their licence.
Do any of the other organisations have this rule?
This is currently a debate topic on the IAM site.

I would imagine that they don't want to confer their 'status' of advanced driver on anyone who is collecting points, as they'd say that an advanced driver wouldn't be doing anything to acquire them (in their opinion).

Is it a case of they'll let them do the training, just not take the test ?

Two members of my local IAM group didn't want me as an observer because I had points that were more than 3 years old but less than 4 - i.e. they wouldn't be counted for totting up, but also could not be removed.

I got the impression they'd expect me to apply for a replacement licence in due course to then have a licence that appeared unblemished if shown to a non-member. Bollocks to that, I thought.

I'm not sure whether it was a group or head office policy because some of my friends said I'd be welcome in their IAM groups.

vonhosen wrote:I would imagine that they don't want to confer their 'status' of advanced driver on anyone who is collecting points, as they'd say that an advanced driver wouldn't be doing anything to acquire them (in their opinion).

I expect there might also be a few non-advanced drivers around who (at least for a while) also manage to avoid collecting points.

Incidentally, do I detect a slight note of scepticism about status there, Von?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

My RoSPA tutor's current pupil has 9 points, with a pending court appearance for another driving offence. I don't know about taking the test, but it certainly seems our group will accept members with points.

I've heard that the group gets quite a few applications from people with pending court appearances for driving offences - the implication was that they could use getting advanced training in mitigation in court (although quite why it's taken them until getting potentially a ban to change behaviour must be an interesting follow up)

I personally don't see why someone with points shouldn't apply - encouraging them to improve their driving can only be a good thing from a road safety point of view?

Jon

Gareth wrote:Two members of my local IAM group didn't want me as an observer because I had points that were more than 3 years old but less than 4 - i.e. they wouldn't be counted for totting up, but also could not be removed.

Talk about cutting off their nose to spite their face! FWIW, I was never asked if I had any points on my licence (I don't) and I would think advanced driving organisations should not be turning away people who want to better their driving, albeit from a point of damage limitation.

Chris

It is not the "training" aspect of having a large number of points that is in question, but being allowed to take the test if they have over a certain number of current points on the licence.
An observer can train someone to test standard but they are not allowed to take the test under the current rules of the organisation.

ROG is right about being allowed to do the training but not take the test. Anything more than 6 points is a no-go.

As far as Gareth's situation - you would be welcome to be an observer with 'expired' points in my group - providiing you passed the observer test

I believe the IAM is trying to limit possible bad publicity...if someone has 9 points then passed the test and gained another 3, they could make a big song and dance in court about being a qualified advanced driver which would no doubt be reported in the local press. It wouldn't look good - but I do have sympathy with people genuinely wishing to improve.

My group is picking up associates from the local safety camera partnership 'speed-choice' workshop - having seen the error of their ways some attendees want to carry on with their driver education and join us - whcih is great.

ScoobyChris wrote:.. I was never asked if I had any points on my licence (I don't) and I would think advanced driving organisations should not be turning away people who want to better their driving, albeit from a point of damage limitation.

In order to renew membership, don't you have to sign something to say you've collected no points, or tell them how many you have collected?

martine wrote:My group is picking up associates from the local safety camera partnership 'speed-choice' workshop - having seen the error of their ways some attendees want to carry on with their driver education and join us - whcih is great.

Maybe for added observational skills so they don't get done again!
Anyway, still useful to get hold of them.

crr003 wrote:In order to renew membership, don't you have to sign something to say you've collected no points, or tell them how many you have collected?

I'll let you know in August

Chris

FFS what doddery half-arsed numpty thinking is going on there?

ROADAR as well as IAM have rules against taking their test if you have more than a certain number of points. It is obviously good to get people with points to take further training. However, I suspect both organisations have two concerns - as already suggested potential bad publicity for the organisations if drivers up in court possibly to lose their licenses quote their membership, and also that the advanced status recognises good driving, which is contradicted by the points on the license.

Incidentally, the IAM don't let members take their Special Assessment if they have had any points within the last ?? 12 or 24 months - this is another controversial feature.

crr003 wrote:In order to renew membership, don't you have to sign something to say you've collected no points, or tell them how many you have collected?

Yes, you do have to sign a declaration. I don't know what the criteria is if you have some points though.

As Triple S has mentioned, you don't need to be an Advanced driver to avoid getting points on your licence. You wont pass your DSA test by driving in a way that could get you points on your licence.

So it is clear we get points on our licences by doing it 'right' on the test then ignoring what we have learned subsequently.

Who is to say that someone who has shown this attitude to their DSA test will not show it to the IAM test? Once the associate has had the training there is no reason why they wont continue with their driving style that will get them more points on their licence.

So to accept a few points for speeding seems sensible as competant, safe and considerate advanced drivers will accrue the odd speeding endorsement from time to time. (Hence Gareth's brush with pedantry is probably counter productive to the aims of the IAM) but recent persistent speeding, no insurance, DWDCA etc etc are perhaps not the conduct becoming of a member of the IAM.

The IAM does not forbid people who have been given lots of points from doing the test. It is only recent points that count. So as well as doing the training it is necessary for point collectors to show they can generally avoid committing drving offences. This cannot be tested for. Only time will tell.

I see nothing wrong with the policy. Especially as the test can be cynically used as mitigation by someone nearing a ban or young people only doing it 'for cheaper insurance' (as was I told recently).

Passing an advanced driving test is not a panacea for safer driving. Applying it subsequently is the most important part of AD. I would suggest that none of us here are points collectors although the odd speeding endorsement is probable.