Campaign against MLOC

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Postby mzje » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:39 pm


Not sure if this has already been posted - Just caught it on bbc news:

Motorists told to move over - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm

The Highways Agency has launched a new campaign to stop motorway drivers hogging the middle lane.

2 Aug 2007

(Talk about recycling news too.. this was just underneath it.. : )

Crackdown on middle-lane road hogs - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm

Motorists who slow up motorway traffic by hogging the middle lane are targeted in a new campaign.

11 Oct 2004

****Edit****

Annoyingly those urls dont work..doh! - You can find them both on the right here though : http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=all&edition=d&q=middle+lane

:)
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Postby martine » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:42 pm


Education is good but did you notice the 3rd link on your bbc search page? "Crackdown on middle lane road hogs"...dated October 2004!

I belieive there are new technology cameras available that could be set up on m-ways to catch middle lane hoggers and tailgaters. Combined with Automatic Number Plate Recognition the prosecution letter could be on it's way before they get home.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
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Postby ScoobyChris » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:05 pm


A camera? To catch an MLOCer? I wonder what criteria it uses to judge whether an "offence" has taken place?

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Postby Susie » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:03 am


Whatever happened to education and encouragement (to do the right thing)?
Cameras monitoring MLOC members will probably catch the likes of you and me, who are planning well ahead - spot that Lorry B is gaining on Lorry A in front - and allowing the follower plenty of space in which to conduct his manoeuvre :evil:

The same goes for bridge monitoring of tailgaters. Take the situation where you have a nice gap between you and the vehicle in front. Someone decides to overtake - spots a bridge camera and dives into your lovely space. You're now the one who is momentarily going to be a close follower as you brake or decelerate to regain your safety margin. The overtaker may well be 'done' as well, but cameras being what they are, he could well be out of the range of scope and get away with it.

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Postby Roadcraft » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:17 am


Susie wrote:Whatever happened to education and encouragement (to do the right thing)?


It went out of the window after so many people complained about the police "Having nothing better to do"...

That is why you've got very few dedicated traffic (road policing officers)....nowadays.. Speed enforcement now done in over 95% of locations by cameras..

and patrolling of motorways done in the main by the Highways Agency, with no powers of prosecution whatsoever..

Result; a further decline in driving standards.

Having said that, how far do you want 'Education and Encouragement' to go? It's all a bit namby pamby for my liking..

After all, the driver had to read the highway code prior to taking their test..and thats' the education part. Also reinforced by the nice MATRIX signs on the motorway saying KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING. (seen in various parts of the motorway network)..

Then there's the media, where you hear about what pisses drivers off the most..and middle lane hoggers are usually in the top couple...

So I think people just don't give a monkeys about education and encouragement..and will do what they selfishly want....

Get 'em hurt in their pockets...THAT's the way to drive home a message...

I'm sorry to say it, but it's very true (in the majority of cases)
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Postby AlistairL » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:40 pm


Anyone care to offer a reason why they think folks hog the middle lane? Now, I'm going to assume the reason that it appears high in the lists of pet hates because it is genuine, and not because most folks are scared of going into lane 3 because its full of drivers doing 100mph.

Is it related to the "I don't do Motorways" thread, because most drivers don't know how to move between lanes properly? I see a lot of drivers that pull almost directly into lane 2 from a slip road, then remain there until they leave a dual carraigeway or motorway - why?

A.
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Postby Susie » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:02 pm


RC – the question was of a rhetorical nature :wink:

The following responses are not specifically in answer to your comments - rather a musing on the general state of affairs, which led to your response the sentiments of which many people may concur... so please don't 'flame' me :cry:

It went out of the window after so many people complained about the police "Having nothing better to do"...


That rather presupposes that the policy makers really understood what the public was saying, which has to be a first! We also have the people who are now looking back at the pre-camera days through rose-tinted spectacles. It also suggests that the majority of Traffic Officers (the pre-HATO variety) previously spent much of their time chatting to people about their minor infringements and not ticketing them – from my observations, I would suggest that some police would offer the benefit of their wisdom in the hopes that drivers would learn from their mistakes (and I certainly think it's a greatly missed PR opportunity); others would ‘always’ ticket, regardless of the situation. As today’s lifestyle is all about ‘standardisation’, it’s deemed better for the population to have set expectations for each circumstance, hence the use of cameras. (Initially the cash bonus hadn't been recognised but they were hardly likely to turn down the unexpected windfall.)

That is why you've got very few dedicated traffic (road policing officers)....nowadays.. Speed enforcement now done in over 95% of locations by cameras..
and patrolling of motorways done in the main by the Highways Agency, with no powers of prosecution whatsoever..


There is also the financial situation to take into account. By reducing the numbers of highly trained traffic police, the cars they needed to do their job efficiently and the time in their shift dedicated to roads policing, the costs attributable to all three become available for other policing policies. The Chief Constables are accountable to the Home Secretary and successively the he/she of the moment has reacted to a public who have constantly demanded a reduction in street crime as being the area of most concern to them. Doing something about that issue wins votes. The amount of police funding has in the main, not kept up with inflation; therefore the distribution of funds has had to change. As funding for ‘Traffic Officers’ is now the responsibility of the Highways Agency, there’s more left in the Police pot for other things.

the Result; a further decline in driving standards.


It’s not just a decline in driving standards – I don’t think people deliberately go out to drive badly. Some just don’t know (or care) how to drive differently. Being given a Pass Certificate by a driving Examiner is an announcement that you are now a 'careful and competent' driver. People forget that by passing they have 'reached the minimum required standard to drive unaccompanied and nothing more.

Having said that, how far do you want 'Education and Encouragement' to go? It's all a bit namby pamby for my liking..


I’m hopefully not being “weak and affectedly sentimental” or attempting to write poetry in the 16th Century style of Ambrose Philips by pressing for more encouragement. There is too little compassion in today’s society and far too many rules, regulations and laws. There is little ‘encouragement’ to take pride in what you do on the road. It’s a chore. It’s crowded. People do things without thinking that upset other people and they in turn react badly. We now have a ‘blame’ culture pervading insidiously into our psyche and ‘reason’ and ‘reasonable behaviour’ has been left by the wayside.

After all, the driver had to read the highway code prior to taking their test..and thats' the education part. Also reinforced by the nice MATRIX signs on the motorway saying KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING. (seen in various parts of the motorway network)..


There’s more to education than reading a book or being tested on your ability to remember a few signs. Throughout the formative years we should have been developing a foundation of acceptable social practices, learning interpersonal skills (with or without the body armour of a lump of metal around us) and generally coexisting in a companionable manner. As you say in your last sentence, many people are selfish. We’ve probably travelled too far down the road of being ‘self-centred’, ‘self-indulgent’ and self-serving’ and have lost sight of ‘self-control’, ‘self-criticism’, ‘self-assessment’, ‘self-restraint’ and ‘self-respect’. If people 'thought' more, there'd be no need for nice matrix signs - or any other signs for that matter - because we would all be adapting our driving in accordance with the prevailing conditions. But that won't happen, so we have to accept that some signage will benefit the majority.

Then there's the media, where you hear about what pisses drivers off the most..and middle lane hoggers are usually in the top couple...

So I think people just don't give a monkeys about education and encouragement..and will do what they selfishly want....


The samples used in the surveys so beloved of our media are usually a mere handful of MOP who are generally not motoring enthusiasts for a start and probably do the very thing they complain about in others, without realising. You get the occasional person who stays in the outer lane because he is travelling a couple of mph quicker than the one to his left, which he is perfectly entitled to do but he could be being deliberately obstructive. In general though, I'd say people go straight to Lane 2 and stay there because
a) they perceive Lane 1 as the 'slow' lane meant only for lorries, plus it's often rutted
b) initially they lacked the confidence to do anything more than 'overtake' a lorry and once in Lane 2, it felt comfortable, so that's become over time,'their lane' where they now head to without thought for the actual conditions
c) Lane 3 is the 'fast' lane and they don't go 'fast' because it's dangerous :shock:

Get 'em hurt in their pockets...THAT's the way to drive home a message...


By inference, one could interpret that statement as ‘prosperitist’ :wink: effectively giving anyone to whom the odd fine will just be lose change down the back of the sofa the advantage of being able to DLAP at will :shock:

We are in a sorry state. It must be nigh on impossible to enjoy being in the Police unless you have an interesting assignment. Paperwork, targets and dealing with a general public who have few manners and even less respect must be demoralising - over the last ten or twelve years I've seen friends crossing off the days until their retirement or even leaving early because the pastoral element of policing is virtually non-existent :cry:
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Postby nuster100 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:53 pm


I think there is a time and a place for everything.

I would be happy to remain in the middle lane on a deserted motorway at 4:30 in the morning. I would give you much more room and space to respond to hazards.

IMO middle lane hogging stems from going slightly faster than the lorries but not having the confidence to go at the same flow as the rest of the traffic.

Middle lane on the M5 was running at 85mph the other week, and cars in lane 3 were doing 100+. Thats a big speed differential if you think about the HGV's limited to 56? mph in lane 1. There are going to be those caught out.

I'm going to be naive and say education is the key, of course that requires someone willing to learn who does not think he/she is gods gift to driving.

Ho Hum

Jay
"Learn from the mistakes of others, you dont have time to make them all yourself"

Rospa South West and Taunton Group Chairman 2007-2009
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Postby crr003 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:09 pm


Roadcraft wrote:That is why you've got very few dedicated traffic (road policing officers)....nowadays.. Speed enforcement now done in over 95% of locations by cameras..

and patrolling of motorways done in the main by the Highways Agency, with no powers of prosecution whatsoever..

Result; a further decline in driving standards.


Coming down the M6 a few days ago, 7.5T van in lane 2, not much in lane 1. V70 pulls in front of it and lights up VMP with something like "use correct lane". Van carries on happily in lane 2. RPO drives off at next exit.

Probably a foreign driver (can't read English?)

It'll be OK now though - Richard & Judy have just done an in depth expose on MLOC tonight!

Given the number of patrolling HATOs seems to exceed patrolling RPU, does the panel think that some of this "educational" stuff could be handed over to HATOs?
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Postby Susie » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:35 pm


Hi crr03 :D I wouldn't have a problem at all with some HATOs being given additional 'responsibilities' as long as they were given the right training and possessed the right mental approach - you know where I'm coming from :wink: My issue would be with the ones who may be tempted to abuse power. I've seen some of them enjoying being in a situation of mistaken identity and generally havin' a larf as following traffic bunches up behind them and they then reduce speed even further to cause even more chaos

As we both know, some HATOs have virtually no training and wouldn't necessarily be in a position to judge what should constitute 'bad' driving techniques any more than I would profess to knowing a 'bad' demonstration of, or even the difference between a samba and a rumba or a merengue and a mambo :oops:
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Postby crr003 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:07 pm


Susie wrote:Hi crr03 :D I wouldn't have a problem at all with some HATOs being given additional 'responsibilities' as long as they were given the right training and possessed the right mental approach - you know where I'm coming from :wink:

Understood.
(PS - looking forward to Millbrook dining again this year!)

My issue would be with the ones who may be tempted to abuse power. I've seen some of them enjoying being in a situation of mistaken identity and generally havin' a larf as following traffic bunches up behind them and they then reduce speed even further to cause even more chaos

Well that's why I'm asking about the "education" side - no issue of "enforcement"...........(yet...........)
But, I've got no sympathy for MoP who hold back when a HATO's doing 55-60 in lane 1.

As we both know, some HATOs have virtually no training and wouldn't necessarily be in a position to judge what should constitute 'bad' driving techniques

Sure - but most HATOs are capable of assimilating basic traffic law. I was thinking of simple stuff that appears to upset people and gets very little attention - lane discipline, fog lights, incorrect use of hard shoulder.
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Postby Roadcraft » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:13 pm


susie..

it's going to happen...dont fret, worry or concern yourself...it'll happen..

HATOs will be given more and more power..and it'll start soon..

First will be fixed penalties for those motorists illegally stopping on hard shoulder, then it'll move on to blue light use..to stop moving transgressors...and so on and so forth..

It's not a bad thing...i've met crr003 and he's a great bloke, (good driver too)...so I know we'll be ok with him...

but it's happening.... PCSOs on the streets HATOs on the motorways...it's the 2 and 3 tier policing that was predicted several years ago...following on from France and other European countries and it's here and here to stay...
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:22 pm


The HATO who came to give us a talk at a RoSPA meeting recently was a thoroughly decent bloke, ex RAF, very good authoritative presence, but also very aware of the limits of his powers, and as far as I could tell, not one to abuse them. I'm sure there are others, of a different persuasion.

You also have to remember that aside from driving up and down in a big imposing vehicle with lights on, there are a lot of unpleasant duties they have to carry out. Arriving first at a serious RTC in the pouring rain at night, or being delegated to shovel the remains of a mangled animal off the carriageway (which could turn out not to be an animal ....)
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Postby crr003 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:38 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:.... or being delegated to shovel the remains of a mangled animal off the carriageway (which could turn out not to be an animal ....)

Anything bigger than a bunny and we call the ISU (subcontractors - Incident Support Unit). They have medical waste disposal facilities (or a barbecue..... :) ) Not allowed to leave big dead critters lying around.

If it's not an animal, something's gone seriously wrong!
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Postby jasonh » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:52 pm


I'm sure there are some HATOs that will be too big for their boots, but there are no doubt some police officers who are not always particularly discerning in the exercise of their powers too (though fortunately I haven't met them) so maybe it's much the same.
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