Motorway roadworks - change in signing?

[martine]

I've noticed recently on the M4 roadworks (both ways) they don't give early warning with signs for 'Roadworks 1 mile' or '50 mph speed limit - 1 mile' or such like.

It's a pain because when it's busy you don't get a view early enough to use acceleration sense to slow and now have to brake.

They certainly used to - anyone know if this a policy change?

[Big Err]

On the motorway if there is a lane closure there should be advanced signing of the roadworks from atleast 1 mile ahead - usually two or three.

If a lower speed limit is being introduced through the works it would normally be situated about half a mile in advance of the works (850m).

Another right riveting read for you - See chapter 8 of The Traffic Signs Manual.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/

[Horse]

I've noticed recently on the M4 roadworks (both ways) they don't give early warning with signs for 'Roadworks 1 mile' or '50 mph speed limit - 1 mile' or such like.

They certainly used to - anyone know if this a policy change?

For various reasons I've looked at a load of stuff on the web recently about M-way roadworks, and IIRC research showed that you (and one or two others) were the only people who took any notice.

I'll have a trawl around, see if I can find the linky.

[crr003]

I've noticed recently on the M4 roadworks (both ways) they don't give early warning with signs for 'Roadworks 1 mile' or '50 mph speed limit - 1 mile' or such like.

It's a pain because when it's busy you don't get a view early enough to use acceleration sense to slow and now have to brake.

They certainly used to - anyone know if this a policy change?

On line "Know Your Traffic Signs" says for "50mph 3/4 mile ahead " sign:

"Where a mandatory speed limit is imposed at a road works site, advance warning may be given, especially on motorways and high-speed dual carriageway roads. However, this sign is less likely to be used in the future: the first speed limit sign will be located at the point where the speed limit commences"

Found it in Chapter 8:

"D3.7.18 Temporary speed limit signs at road works on high-speed roads and other roads should comply with Table 3.4 above. The initial speed limit signing must be placed on both sides of the carriageway, for both dual and single carriageway roads. If the termination signing includes signs to diagram 670 or 671, then it must also be placed on both sides of the carriageway, for both dual and single carriageway roads. The use of the sign to diagram 7290 is no longer recommended."

7290 is the 50mph 3/4 mile ahead sign.

[Horse]

http://www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/1056.aspx

4.2.6 The Evaluation of Effectiveness of Portable Variable Messaging Systems

As a part of the evaluation of both speed detection and variable messaging systems (VMS), the Trials Team undertook the testing of a "portable" VMS system which was in use on a set of motorway works. The trial of the system aimed to determine whether such systems can slow traffic in advance of temporary works.

The portable VMS system used was a modular, fully type-approved system which was set to display the legend "ROAD WORKS SLOW DOWN" at distances of 1.5 miles and between the 1 mile and 800 yard advance signing.. The sign was supplemented with a fixed legend board carrying a "road works" sign.

Initial examination of the data for the 1.5 mile distant sign appears to suggest that the sign had no significant effect. Examination of the data for the sign deployed between the 1 mile and 800 yard signs suggests that there may be some useful effect.

[martine]

Thanks guys - as a consequence I've just rattled off an email to the Highways Agency asking them to check the signage as I'm convinced the early signs are missing (just could be my nadd obs of course...both ways )

I'll tell you what their response is.

[crr003]

Thanks guys - as a consequence I've just rattled off an email to the Highways Agency asking them to check the signage as I'm convinced the early signs are missing (just could be my nadd obs of course...both ways )

I'll tell you what their response is.

"The use of the sign to diagram 7290 is no longer recommended."
It looks like they don't have to use it - I've seen a few roadworks now with no warning of the limit reducing.

[nodigitsever]

Please note that Metric only road signs are Illegal

(for the benefit of old imperial farts like me lol)

[TripleS]

Please note that Metric only road signs are Illegal

(for the benefit of old imperial farts like me lol)

Good man. Inches, feet, yards, miles......that's what we want, none of this silly metric rubbish. Damned furriners!

I'll not bother with rods, poles and perches though, if it's all the same to you.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[martine]

OK I said I'd post the reply from the Highways Agency....here it is...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for contacting the Highways Agency Information Line. In response to you question regarding the M4 Roadwork's between Swindon and Reading,

It is not a requirement that these signs are to be erected and it is at the discretion of the police who would request them to be placed. There are 50 mph signs and speed signs at 300m staggered on both sides of the carriageway and the current arrangement has the approval of Thames Valley Police.

Thank you for your enquiry

Richard Fairbrass
Customer Care Co-ordinator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So it seems crr003 was right.

Not quite sure what Mr. Fairbrass means by '50mph signs and speed signs' unless he's referring to the 'Average Speed Cameras' signs - or the reference to 'staggered' for that matter.

I think it's quite poor they are no longer required...means I can't always use acceleration sense and have to brake to be down to 50 in time.

I suppose it's a cost saving thing?

[TripleS]

OK I said I'd post the reply from the Highways Agency....here it is...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for contacting the Highways Agency Information Line. In response to you question regarding the M4 Roadwork's between Swindon and Reading,

It is not a requirement that these signs are to be erected and it is at the discretion of the police who would request them to be placed. There are 50 mph signs and speed signs at 300m staggered on both sides of the carriageway and the current arrangement has the approval of Thames Valley Police.

Thank you for your enquiry

Richard Fairbrass
Customer Care Co-ordinator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So it seems crr003 was right.

Not quite sure what Mr. Fairbrass means by '50mph signs and speed signs' unless he's referring to the 'Average Speed Cameras' signs - or the reference to 'staggered' for that matter.

I think it's quite poor they are no longer required...means I can't always use acceleration sense and have to brake to be down to 50 in time.

I suppose it's a cost saving thing?

I thought speed limit signs had to be in pairs, one at each side of the road, in order to have legal effect, so the 'staggered' reference mystifies me too. Mind you, I can't say I'm fully up to speed with all these niceties.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[martine]

I thought speed limit signs had to be in pairs, one at each side of the road, in order to have legal effect, so the 'staggered' reference mystifies me too.

You are right but these signs were in pairs - I think his reference to 'staggered' meant...the 50mph signs were first followed 300m by 'Average Speed Cameras' signs - I've asked for clarification.

I feel like following it up with the Thames Valley Police but I'm not sure who to contact. I really can't see a good reason not to give 1m warnings and I can see plenty of reasons to do it.

[Big Err]

I thought speed limit signs had to be in pairs, one at each side of the road, in order to have legal effect, so the 'staggered' reference mystifies me too.

He may be refering to the repeater signs through the site?

[crr003]

I thought speed limit signs had to be in pairs, one at each side of the road, in order to have legal effect, so the 'staggered' reference mystifies me too.

He may be refering to the repeater signs through the site?

That would be my guess.

Re-reading the reply:
"and speed signs at 300m staggered on both sides of the carriageway "
would shirley refer to repeaters?

[crr003]

I think it's quite poor they are no longer required...means I can't always use acceleration sense and have to brake to be down to 50 in time.

I suppose it's a cost saving thing?

It's one less sign for a worker to be carrying across several lanes, dodging traffic.

Brake lights might at least wake up people behind that traffic is slowing though?