A339 - why 50mph?

[martine]

Visited my brother in law on boxing day...went on the A339 from Newbury via Basingstoke and then towards Alton. Why is much of this otherwise excellent road limited to 50mph? In many places it had all the hallmarks of NSL but it's almost solid 50...aaarrrghh.
map here
Anyone know how long ago it was NSL or why it changed?

[ROG]

Easy answer - silly car drivers not able to drive safely at the higher speed limit - I've seen them on that road - many times.

The problem now is that good drivers are being penalised for the antics of others.

[brianhaddon]

It would not surprise me to find all NSL single carriageways to be reduced to 50 mph before too long (and some are going to 40mph). A similar thing is happening near where I live. The latest victim a perfectly good NSL road with clear views has been reduced to 50. It does have openings into fields but with such long and clear views it doesn't warrent a speed reduction. So I would like to know the real reason for these reductions and what is going through the minds of the planners when they come up with these ideas. What precisely is the process and motivation for these changes? Cue anyone with inside knowledge

[TripleS]

Words fail me.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[jont]

Try driving in Derbyshire. Virtually every A or B road is 50 regardless of how good the sight lines and road surface are. Sadly as Brian says I think this will only become ever more prevalent.

[waremark]

The decisions are taken by politicians rather than by road safety professionals - accordingly the policy varies by county council. The irony is that you have to turn off the main roads onto the unclassifieds for your recreational motoring.

[AnalogueAndy]

So I would like to know the real reason for these reductions and what is going through the minds of the planners when they come up with these ideas. What precisely is the process and motivation for these changes? Cue anyone with inside knowledge

That'll be:DfT Circular 1/06

I've some inside knowledge as a Parish Clerk who has worked on a number of schemes with our local authority (Bath and North East Somerset) (and other 'partners' including the police)- you have me (and the Council) to thank for the 50/40 limit on the unclassified 'Lansdown Road' into Bath and the '30' and '20' limits on Broadmoor and Charlcombe Lanes in Bath.

As to motivation and criteria etc you need to read the whole thing - it's very difficult to summarise in a few words - unsurprisingly casualty reduction plays a big part. i.e. if a road has a bad accident record, speed redcution would become a consideration - paradoxically, we pushed for the aforementioned Lansdown Road '50' along with better signing, a right turn' island, repositioned Bus Stop etc and other measures on Lansdown Road but our scheme didn't get high enough up the priority list as the accident record wasn't bad enough. 18 months and 4 deaths later the scheme became no 3 on the priority list and got funding.

[Horse]

Visited my brother in law on boxing day...went on the A339 from Newbury via Basingstoke and then towards Alton. Why is much of this otherwise excellent road limited to 50mph? In many places it had all the hallmarks of NSL but it's almost solid 50...aaarrrghh.
map here
Anyone know how long ago it was NSL or why it changed?

I live a few yards from the 'top' end of it, and travelled back along from Alton late on Christmas Day.

Just a few miles N of Basingstoke there's a side turning on to a long single track road [towards Hannington] . . . which is NSL

Blanket 50s do get my goat - perhaps something for the 'lobbying IAM' thread?

[ScoobyChris]

Stumbled on this road a couple of months back after going for a drive with a friend and missing the turning we wanted. Quite surprised it was all 50mph as it seemed to be a good road with a nice smooth surface too

Chris

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

It's a busy commuter route with heavy traffic in the mornings. I guess the 50 limit is possibly aimed at smoothing out traffic flow to some extent, as well as cutting down risky overtaking.

[Big Err]

DfT Circular 1/06

Probably the most woolly advice note in the world

[brianhaddon]

DfT Circular 1/06

Probably the most woolly advice note in the world

Shazbut - Eric got in before me!
I have just looked at it and would still ask the same questions I asked before.
What is worse with the example that I gave is if you go out of village in another direction the road is still NSL but it has a poor undulating surface and a narrow pavement adjacent to one side - and has a worse safety record to boot. For those who live in the area the first road is the B5008 from Repton as far as Newton Solney and the second example from Repton to Willington (all South Derbyshire).

I worry that too many examples will result in the following:

From DfT Circular 1/06
22. Indeed, if a speed limit is set in isolation, or is unrealistically low, it is likely to be
ineffective and lead to disrespect for the speed limit. As well as requiring significant, and
avoidable, enforcement costs, this may also result in substantial numbers of drivers
continuing to travel at unacceptable speeds, thus increasing the risk of collisions and
injuries.

Regards
Brian Haddon

[vonhosen]

I'd imagine that because a proportion of people are treating NSL as no speed limit, this is the result. They don't believe they'll be so inclined to treat a 50 as no speed limit.

[brianhaddon]

I'd imagine that because a proportion of people are treating NSL as no speed limit, this is the result. They don't believe they'll be so inclined to treat a 50 as no speed limit.

This is one of the things that went through my mind. However the danger I see with this approach is that 50 will become the new 'NSL' and be ignored (but for different reasons). And as 50 is just another number other limits will receive the same contempt. I do not see this as a way to successfully get drivers to respect speed restrictions. The more you restrict people the more they will resist.

Regards
Brian Haddon

[vonhosen]

I'd imagine that because a proportion of people are treating NSL as no speed limit, this is the result. They don't believe they'll be so inclined to treat a 50 as no speed limit.

This is one of the things that went through my mind. However the danger I see with this approach is that 50 will become the new 'NSL' and be ignored (but for different reasons). And as 50 is just another number other limits will receive the same contempt. I do not see this as a way to successfully get drivers to respect speed restrictions. The more you restrict people the more they will resist.

Regards
Brian Haddon

And when people roundly ignore the 50's & treat them as no speed limit, it will give them the ammunition for ever more draconian measures.