Fifth Gear last night (mock driving test)

[martine]

Any one see it? One of the presenters 're-took' his L-test with a real examiner to see how he'd get on...he failed...had a couple of hours instruction in the same day...took it again and passed.

When they went back to the studio they were explaining how drivers get into bad habits and how important it is to keep your skills up to date...I was just hoping they would close-the-loop and mention advanced driving with IAM/ROSPA but no...

What a missed opportunity.

[Custom24]

When they went back to the studio they were explaining how drivers get into bad habits and how important it is to keep your skills up to date...I was just hoping they would close-the-loop and mention advanced driving with IAM/ROSPA but no...
What a missed opportunity.

So if they did not mention IAM/Rospa, what did they suggest, or did they just leave it at that? If all they've achieved is to make people feel vaguely guilty without knowing what to do about it, then that's pretty dumb on their part and frustrating on ours...

[ROG]

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp ... iving+Test

I found the above link to the piece concerned by the video does not seem to be working for me

[Custom24]

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?mnk=410&id=337&description=The+Driving+Test

I found the above link to the piece concerned by the video does not seem to be working for me

It worked for me, but I had to be really patient and let it buffer - turn the sound down while it is buffering or you will hear bits and pieces.

Unless there was more to this clip than what is shown on the site, there was no mention of what the viewer was supposed to do about any shortcomings in their driving. Maybe it was inferred that they might want to see a driving instructor, but not very strongly. Certainly no hint about any other options. Pointless motoring journalism as usual, in my view...

[jbsportstech]

They suggested 'training' but don't give any detail on what type.

He went with the intention to fail as he didnt use M.S.M. or pull-push and I think most people know that these are expected on by the dsa, whether he intended to jump the red light or not I don't know could of been for effect could of been just his poor observation. Did anyone notice he was being tested by a guy with a DIAmond Advanced high viz vest.

Isn't that a glorified L Test for elitist ADI's or have I been given the wrong impression by someone in rospa.

[ScoobyChris]

Isn't that a glorified L Test for elitist ADI's or have I been given the wrong impression by someone in rospa.

It's just another advanced test, much like RoSPA is a "glorified" L-test.

http://www.driving.org/advanced_test.html

Chris

[jbsportstech]

Isn't that a glorified L Test for elitist ADI's or have I been given the wrong impression by someone in rospa.

It's just another advanced test, much like RoSPA is a "glorified" L-test.

http://www.driving.org/advanced_test.html

Chris

I dont agree that IAM/ROSPA are glorified L Tests as some of the techniques go against DSA thinking. Its teaching you a safer way to drive reducing your vunerbilty and hopefully helping you make progress safely using a system which if used correctly you vehicle should be in the right gear, place and speed for the conditions to complete you will need to learn so new techniques.

A DIAmond test just builds on your L Test but its longer with lower pass rate.

[jbsportstech]

Well it depends on your observer but some teach straight lining wouldnt do that on dsa or diamond test.

Most adi's I know don't agree with putting the car in neutral at traffic lights and taking your feet off the pedals. You have to indicate all the time regardless whether there are any road users who would benefit from the information.

DSA have a simplistic view of flexible use of gears IE alot quote 3rd for 30mph. Only the other day my partner question why I stayed in 2nd gear through the town centre when I was able to travel at 30 mph her comment was 'don't like 3rd then' my reply was 3rd gear has its place but since the traffic was heavy and closing up for set a of traffic lights I choose to stay in second which gave me more flexibilty. She is taking her L Test this month and 'Ian' her adi says 30mph for 3rd. Can't wait to get him along to rospa meet and rospa'ise him!

[ROG]

None of that is DSA doctrine, I'm afraid, but a way for ADIs to give learners simple rules to follow at a time when they can't take on board loads of extra thinking.

I tend to agree.

The basic DSA car L test is designed to test a person on the rules, controls and getting from A to B in relative safety.

The DSA progression from that would be the DSA style advanced test which is a higher level but using & building on, the DSA methods.

The IAM/ROSPA style advanced tests are using a different system and a different way of thinking.

If we are asking which is the higher level then that answers itself - why would the highest form of driving we know, that used by police traffic, be the Roadcraft style and not the DSA style

[jbsportstech]

Yes but the deffinition of advanced driving is being able to control a vehicle so it is in the right gear, position, speed etc etc and this comes from roadcraft so calling the DIAmond Test Advanced is pharscial as it does not use roadcraft as its basis.

So the DIA call it advanced as a pat on the back of adi's who can basically excute and and extend L test with a low error threshold.

[ScoobyChris]

Yes but the deffinition of advanced driving is being able to control a vehicle so it is in the right gear, position, speed etc etc and this comes from roadcraft so calling the DIAmond Test Advanced is pharscial as it does not use roadcraft as its basis.

The official definition, as agreed by IAM, RoSPA and DSA is:

"Advanced Driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. This skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle will always be in the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear."

I can't see anything in that which ties it specifically to Roadcraft and to call it farcical (based on what someone in your Rospa group said) just shows ignorance, imho.

Is there any group of drivers outside of your RoSPA group you do have time for as you seem to have dismissed offerings from every other group/organisation out there?

Chris

[jbsportstech]

I have time for the IAM and HPC also...

In my mind the advanced deffinition comes from the system of car control (Roadcraft).


I did state that it was someones opinion and I was open to be told otherwise but what appears to me an extention of the L Test can't be called advanced if you call IAM/ROSPA Advanced as they are based on the system of car control that if used correctly aims to give the correct position, gear, speed etc.

Chris if we agreed on everything life would be boring.

[ScoobyChris]

I have time for the IAM and HPC also...

Really? I seem to remember you slating IAM groups on here a little while back and also saying how easy to pass it was. I don't remember seeing any of your experiences with HPC written about so I can't really comment on that and I'm not really sure I'm the greatest authority on HPC anyway It kind of proves the point about narrow-minded thinking though.

In my mind the advanced deffinition comes from the system of car control (Roadcraft).

And yet the DSA have agreed with the definition of advanced driving and during their test seem to agree that safety, good observation and forward planning, good progress for the conditions, being in a good position on the road, being in a good gear, and driving at an appropriate speed are all important?! Maybe the definition in your mind does not tie in with the actual definition?

I did state that it was someones opinion and I was open to be told otherwise but what appears to me an extention of the L Test can't be called advanced if you call IAM/ROSPA Advanced as they are based on the system of car control that if used correctly aims to give the correct position, gear, speed etc.

See above....

Chris

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Our previous car training officer is the sort of chap who lives and breathes driving. He's done all three of the tests above, as well as being an IAM Senior Observer, RoADAR Advanced Tutor, etc. etc. He uses all three organisation's badges on his car. I don't believe, apart from a slight partiality for RoADAR, that he views his time as wasted on any of the tests. They're all tools in his armoury, and taken equally seriously.

[jbsportstech]

I am not convinced by DIAmond Test...

Thats interesting are training officier has done IAM Senior Observer, Rospa Tutor and HPC ex chairman and tutor on their master class. I don't think he has done Diamond as he seems to dismiss it as adi's thing.

He is focusing on rospa at the mo but only displays hpc on his vehicles