Drivers to shoulder the blame when involved in an accident i

[fungus]

A DfT funded agency Cycling England wants a change in the law to place the onus on the motorist in accidents involving a cyclist according to this article on PistonHeads.

MOTORISTS TO TAKE BLAME FOR CYCLE CRASHES
Cycling lobby group wants 'legal onus' for accidents involving cars to be placed on drivers



Law would be intended to encourage bicycle useThe government is being advised to make motorists automatically responsible in all accidents involving cyclists, a move that could cause insurance premiums to soar.

A Department for Transport funded agency called Cycling England is calling for a change in civil law to make drivers liable for compensation and other insurance costs. "I would like to see the legal onus placed on motorists when there are accidents" says Phillip Darnton, chief executive of Cycling England.

The legislation that Cycling England is pushing for could also have worrying implications for other motorists. If the idea is that the more powerful vehicle in an accident is always to blame, what's to stop a clever lawyer arguing that the Toyota Prius that's just rear-ended your new 911 is actually the innocent party?

Hopefully, however, the proposals are little more than hot air. In fact a spokesman for the DfT, in a moment of uncharacteristic common sense, said: "This is something that gets raised by pressure groups from time to time. Cycling England has proposed it, but it is not something that is being considered by ministers."

If this were to be approved, it would be another nail in the coffin of common sense.

Nigel ADI
IAM observer

[fungus]

PS. Title should read. Drivers to shoulder the blame when involved in an accident involving a cyclist.

Title obviously too long

Nigel ADI
IAM observer

[ROG]

PS. Title should read. Drivers to shoulder the blame when involved in an accident involving a cyclist.

Title obviously too long

Nigel ADI
IAM observer

Drivers to blame in all cyclists collisions

[fungus]

ROG wrote,

Drivers to blame in all cyclists collisions

Thanks ROG. I have a tendency to being long winded.

Nigel ADI
IAm observer

[7db]

That's not the headline, as drivers won't shoulder the blame -- one group just wants that to happen.

Pedestrian England wants cyclists to carry number-plates, be insured and be to blame for all collisions near misses or inconveniences with pedestrians no matter how so caused. They are suggesting a £100 fixed fine for all cyclists phoned in to a special hotline by any pedestrian as being seen cycling inconveniently.

[TripleS]

PS. Title should read. Drivers to shoulder the blame when involved in an accident involving a cyclist.

Title obviously too long

Nigel ADI
IAM observer

Drivers to blame in all cyclists collisions

....including when two idiot cyclists hit each other. Just wait, that'll be next.

My respect for the law is diminishing daily the more I hear of this sort of lunacy.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[MAG man]

This sort of nonsense has been tried before and failed. However, most governments and lobby groups have the same attitude; If you don't like the answer you get first time, dress it up differently and try again. And again, etc.

[ExadiNigel]

Heaven forbid! Any road user should take responsibility for their own actions! Whatever vehicle they're pretending to be in charge of!

Nigel

[jcochrane]

Sounds a bit like the thinking they have in France,if I have been told correctly. I can see some merit in the idea to try and get drivers to think more about cyclists. Being both a cyclist and a driver I can see both sides of the argument. It is my opinion that very few drivers realy understand what it is to be a cyclist. In fact few have the faintest idea about how the speed of a bike varies with gradient, stopping distances, manoeuvrability, balancing (you can't cycle uphill and give hand signals etc.) the effect of weather and wind, road surfaces and road damage etc etc.
Because few drivers have experience of cycling they fail to pick up on clues that tell could tell them what a cyclist needs to, or is about to, do (like knowing if a cyclist is about to turn left or right from his pedal position.)

[jcochrane]

I've just read on another forum advice to drivers to watch out for wet leaves on the road at this time of year. I wonder how many drivers consider this hazard from the view point of a cyclist, particularly on a road bike, do they even realise the tyre width various with the type of bike. Do the know that the thinner tyre the less the grip on leaves. When on a wooded hill if the cyclist gets out of the saddle the risk of spinning the rear wheel is high and if that happens, particularly if the cyclist is clipped in, they stand a high risk of coming off the bike. It's this attention to detail that the best drivers display and will incorporate this information into the descisions they make.

Sorry... rant over.

[TripleS]

Sounds a bit like the thinking they have in France,if I have been told correctly. I can see some merit in the idea to try and get drivers to think more about cyclists. Being both a cyclist and a driver I can see both sides of the argument. It is my opinion that very few drivers realy understand what it is to be a cyclist. In fact few have the faintest idea about how the speed of a bike varies with gradient, stopping distances, manoeuvrability, balancing (you can't cycle uphill and give hand signals etc.) the effect of weather and wind, road surfaces and road damage etc etc.
Because few drivers have experience of cycling they fail to pick up on clues that tell could tell them what a cyclist needs to, or is about to, do (like knowing if a cyclist is about to turn left or right from his pedal position.)

I think it is possible to give hand signals if the gradient is not too steep in relation to the gearing you are using. If you're struggling with a gear that's too high, the greater effort of pedalling is likely to rule it out. You'd need both hands on the handlebars to stabilise yourself and maintain a steady course; or that's what I would expect.

If you are able to keep sufficiently clear of cyclists it probably doesn't matter what they do; but the matter of pedal position as a guide to which way they're going to turn is interesting. Care to explain?

There, you see: I do take an interest in other road user groups and their problems. Now where's that 'angel' emoticon? It's so seldom I feel its use would be appropriate.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[crr003]

If you are able to keep sufficiently clear of cyclists it probably doesn't matter what they do;..

Advice to me was give them enough room so if they tipped over you wouldn't run over their head.

It's worked so far..........

[jcochrane]

Sounds a bit like the thinking they have in France,if I have been told correctly. I can see some merit in the idea to try and get drivers to think more about cyclists. Being both a cyclist and a driver I can see both sides of the argument. It is my opinion that very few drivers realy understand what it is to be a cyclist. In fact few have the faintest idea about how the speed of a bike varies with gradient, stopping distances, manoeuvrability, balancing (you can't cycle uphill and give hand signals etc.) the effect of weather and wind, road surfaces and road damage etc etc.
Because few drivers have experience of cycling they fail to pick up on clues that tell could tell them what a cyclist needs to, or is about to, do (like knowing if a cyclist is about to turn left or right from his pedal position.)

I think it is possible to give hand signals if the gradient is not too steep in relation to the gearing you are using. If you're struggling with a gear that's too high, the greater effort of pedalling is likely to rule it out. You'd need both hands on the handlebars to stabilise yourself and maintain a steady course; or that's what I would expect.

If you are able to keep sufficiently clear of cyclists it probably doesn't matter what they do; but the matter of pedal position as a guide to which way they're going to turn is interesting. Care to explain?

There, you see: I do take an interest in other road user groups and their problems. Now where's that 'angel' emoticon? It's so seldom I feel its use would be appropriate.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

With regard to hills. The type of bike will give clues whether the cyclist will get out of the saddle. A mountain bike or hybrid would be more likely to select a lower gear and stay in the saddle. (How many drivers check to see if the smallest ring and the largest cog on the cassette have been selected. If they are then if the cyclist slows any more they may have to dismount or get out of the saddle. If getting out of the saddle the bike will usually wobble a little due to transferrance of weight etc. and the extra initial push down on the pedal can cause a chain to snap and the cyclist will fall.) A roadie (road bike) would more likely get out of the saddle. even for a lesser climb. As you say if out of the saddle you require both hands to control the bike because of the levering effect as you pull on one side of the bar and push down the pedal on the other side.

In most cases, when turning left, a cyclist will ease up pedalling at certain point. To determine at which point would come from your own cycling experience. Then, usually, the cyclist right pedal will stay vertically down and he would then swing left banking the bike down as required. The opposite would apply for a right turn. It's the mix and timing that can give a very clear indication of intention.

The reason for the outer pedal being vertically down is twofold. First it allows clearance on the opposite side as you bank in ie. inside pedal does not hit the ground. Secondly by varying pressure on the lower outside pedal you can control the radius of the turn. Very useful when decending mountain passes at over 50 mph. I don't think I could explain this but it's an instictive blend of feel of camber, leaning in and pushing down the foot and slightly varying the push and lean as required.

[TripleS]

If you are able to keep sufficiently clear of cyclists it probably doesn't matter what they do;..

Advice to me was give them enough room so if they tipped over you wouldn't run over their head.

It's worked so far..........

Yes, I've heard that one before, and it's a good start, but it might not be adequate in all cases.

It should be OK if the cyclist is stationary, because the falling over is unlikely to involve a lateral movement of the tyre contact points. On the other hand if the cyclist falls to the right whilst he's moving, there might initially be a little swerve to the right, and if the swerve fails to maintain his balance he'll need a bit more space in total.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

JC - thanks for that information. Now you mention it I recall the matter of which pedal is vertically down, but I had forgotten that. My cycling days are a very long way in the past, apart from a very brief spell a few years ago when we were on holiday on the island of Skiathos. It proved a bit hot for cycling there!

Best wishes all,
Dave.