ADUK Archive

I came across this in Mind Driving:

"we must allow ourselves to admit errors freely, without the burden of criticism"

This reminded me of the work by Argyris and Schon regarding double loop learning (http://www.infed.org/thinkers/argyris.htm) and an interesting ted talk about whether schools kill creativity (http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_s ... ivity.html)

It seems people are obsessed about getting 'it right' and miss the opportunity of learning from mistakes, myself included.

I think this is why I'm not impressed by Mind Driving. When I read it (what I did read because I never finished the wretched book), I thought he was speaking the obvious. But then I am a trained driver trainer, probably outside of his target market.

Nigel

The thing I've taken from it so far is that he seems to apply skills/theories which haven't been associated with driving before (or not in my experience).

The point I raised is directly relate to the learning process and how we have generally been taught things in the past. This type of thinking makes the difference between teaching and coaching. Nigel, I guess you have more practice than most of us.

I've had a few conversation regarding driving 'style' recently and this view of right/wrong, not making mistakes, has been at the center of the conversation, in that roadcraft has laid down the basics and moving forward requires some 'playing' to develop a style. I've not expressed that very well, but hopefully you get my meaning.

I had the impression that a lot of what Steve writes is aimed at attitude rather than a difference between teaching & coaching.

Nigel

It maybe, I'm not that far through the book. But, I was referring to the bit I've quoted.

Hi,

This is an excellent book and is ideal to have many of the ideas from it in your 'tool box'.

It is intersting that the book is also looking at a lot of basic ideas that many will be doing without realising it or by another 'name'.

Brian

It is one of my favourite books too - MIND DRIVING (Link) By Stephen Haley

adiNigel wrote:I think this is why I'm not impressed by Mind Driving. When I read it (what I did read because I never finished the wretched book), I thought he was speaking the obvious. But then I am a trained driver trainer, probably outside of his target market.

Nigel

I'm sorry you find MD unimpressive, but I like the book very much. It seems to me that a good deal of what's in the book - stuff you may feel to be obvious - may not be at all obvious to most drivers, in which case it is worth bringing it to the attention of road users at large. Improving general attitudes can be very rewarding, before we get to any practical aspects of driving.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

........... But then I am a trained driver trainer, probably outside of his target market.

Fantastic. .. . . . . a book about driving and teaching attitudes and some (use of word some so it is not personal ) of the very people it can benefit by tapping into their own Affective Domain have a strong resistance to it.

As a trained driver trainer I personally think i am part of that target market ! ! ! Sometimes it is the more simple things that work better.

Brian

midlife_crisis wrote:I came across this in Mind Driving:

"we must allow ourselves to admit errors freely, without the burden of criticism"

This reminded me of the work by Argyris and Schon regarding double loop learning (http://www.infed.org/thinkers/argyris.htm) and an interesting ted talk about whether schools kill creativity (http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_s ... ivity.html)

It seems people are obsessed about getting 'it right' and miss the opportunity of learning from mistakes, myself included.

Interesting you mention 'schools kill creativity'; Filly is a teacher, and has covered 'thinking skills' with her class using, amongst other things, TASC wheel http://www.tascwheel.com/

They also covered that their 'mistakes' just show that you need to rethink.

Perhaps whoever did that talk needs to get into schools more often?

I'll have a read of the links.


Personally - and as someone involved in rider training (also instructor training and instructor accreditation) for 30 years, I thought MD was an excellent book. Not, perhaps as 'unique' as the author might claim, but certainly a valuable addition to any library.

Here's a couple more:
Sir John Whitmore's 'Coaching for Performance'
John Brown's 'Driving is about Psychology not Systems'

Also, FWIW, I spent a lot of time looking 'outside' of traditional training content, trying to identify information, ideas and techniques which can be carried across.

Example: 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' by Betty Edwards - an excellent book on drawing (as the name suggest!), but fascinating on L-R brain activity, an I've used the same ideas to help riders who have 'mental blocks' which are hindering their riding.

chriskay wrote:

adiNigel wrote:I had the impression that a lot of what Steve writes is aimed at attitude...
Nigel

Which is an excellent thing since, I suspect, the majority of accidents are caused by lack of the right attitude rather than any lack of technical ability.

I totally agree Chris.

Nigel

Horse wrote:....Here's a couple more:
Sir John Whitmore's 'Coaching for Performance'
John Brown's 'Driving is about Psychology not Systems'...

Yes, I agree, both are good. I have a lot of time for John Brown and our local group is hosting John in the new year. I believe John now has two books out. He has a strap line on his posts along the lines of 'if a pupil can't learn the way you teach, can you teach the way they learn?' Which I think sums things up brilliantly.

Nigel

I bought a copy of Mind Driving a few years ago. I never finished it.

Whilst it is great to read about the mechanics of the mind and how we learn etc, I can't help but feel books like these are more about psychological aspects rather than driving in it's purest sense.

Human Aspects are of course part of the system of AD but I would rather be learning practically from mistakes on the road rather than delving too far into the science of how the brain works.

Surely if you are able to pick out pointsto improve on every drive and implement them on the next drive you are doing more to help yourself than you would be by over exploring the science behind psyche.

Just my 2p.

Horse wrote:Perhaps whoever did that talk needs to get into schools more often?

If you watch the video, it will all become clear.

Horse wrote:Sir John Whitmore's 'Coaching for Performance'
John Brown's 'Driving is about Psychology not Systems'

Thanks, I will look out for them.

James wrote:I bought a copy of Mind Driving a few years ago. I never finished it.

Whilst it is great to read about the mechanics of the mind and how we learn etc, I can't help but feel books like these are more about psychological aspects rather than driving in it's purest sense.

Serious question: Do you know about the Gadget Matrix [nothing to do with the sci-fi film ]?

What 'Coaching for Performance', 'Mind Driving', and 'Driving is More About Psychology Than Systems' are about is on two levels:

1. Change the people, not the 'techniques' of driving
- It's fairly well proven that simple 'skills' training doesn't reduce crashes

2. Change people in the best (ie most effective) way, to achieve long-lasting change the learner wants to maintain


After all, who's safest: a driver with fantastic skills but no self-preservation instinct, or someone who knows their limits, knows they're 'low' - but keeps within them?


Selection of links; I'll let you trawl through for the Gadget info:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safe ... _annex.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/roadsafet ... le_6_1.pdf