Bend classification

[Gromit37]

I've been sorting out some routes in the peak district for an ADUK driving day later this year. One of the 'must' have roads is the infamous A537 Cat and Fiddle road. It's been a 50mph limit for a while, which is ok because I suspect most cars won't have time to build up to 50mph between many of the bends. But in the months between my visits, they've put speed cameras on the some of the straights bits. The cameras appear to be facing the wrong way, presumably to catch speeding bikers, as it's bikers who have most of the accidents on this road (and others in the Peak park). But this road needs speed cameras like Jordan needs a push up bra. What it needs is a better indication of how tight the bends are. There are fantastic combinations of switchbacks, tight turns, gradient changes and camber angles all of which mark this out as one hell of a driving road. But whilst some have fantastic crossviews for half a mile or more, some are blind with decreasing radii that require very slow speeds.

Which made me think:

Why do we not have a simple, uniform classifiction of bends to warn how tight an upcoming bend is?

We have similar methods for steep inclines. Perhaps a numeric scale of 1 to 5 written in a foot high font with the usual bend to the left/right sign. I know we have the limit point, but bends are something that so many get wrong, especially on winding country roads. Seems like a good idea to me.

Thoughts?

Ian

[fungus]

A numeric system seems like a good idea to me. The number, (the higher the number, the more severe the bend,) could be on a plate below the bend warning sign. Having said that, many drivers do not notice road signs at all.

I drove the A537 Cat & Fiddle road when I was staying just outside of Leek last year. It's a fantastic driving road and I can understand why bikers love it. There are other good roads in the area too. It's a shame that so many are reduced to 50mph.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

The number, (the higher the number, the more severe the bend,)

Confusing for rally drivers

[Porker]

I suppose it might encourage drivers to take the bends at the limit of grip or confidence rather than the limit of their vision?

P.

[martine]

Good idea.

I suppose chevrons sort of indicate this...my understanding is the more chevrons, the more severe the bend but I don't know if this is regulated.

[Custom24]

One thing I've thought before was why not just draw the shape of the bend(s) on the sign for the bend(s)

Would require an individual sign for each bend, and as P says, might encourage everyone to think they are rallly drivers, but on the positive side it would draw attention especially to bends with decreasing radii

[christopherwk]

One thing I've thought before was why not just draw the shape of the bend(s) on the sign for the bend(s)

No need if you have sat-nav!

[jont]

my understanding is the more chevrons, the more severe the bend but I don't know if this is regulated.

Are you sure about that? One of the tips I've been given previously is that more chevron signs often means a less severe bend as there is space for multiple signs, while on a very tight bend there is often only space for a single chevron board.

A couple of examples:
Lyndney by-pass - where NSL is perfectly comfortable all the way around, but there are at least 4 chevron signs in that view (and scrolling along the road a bit shows 1 more), while a short distance away in Woodcroft there's a single sign for a tight bend. Both are Glos LA. I'm sure I could find plenty more examples.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

I think Martin's theory is generally true where the chevrons have been split up into little boards with one or two chevrons on each. That combines with Jon's answer where less room means smaller signs.

[PeterE]

The cameras on the Cat & Fiddle are of the average speed type. I think they're Redspeed rather than SPECS, although I haven't yet been up there to take a look. They're set up as rear-facing so they can catch motorcycles. Most of the sections they cover are so twisty that you'd be hard pressed to activate them in a car, the major exception being the long straight immediately to the east of the Cat & Fiddle pub.

[Custom24]

One thing I've thought before was why not just draw the shape of the bend(s) on the sign for the bend(s)

No need if you have sat-nav!

To a certain extent.

[Custom24]

Can you really imagine,....

It would certainly take some of the enjoyment out of the driving we like to do.

On your point about law suits, signing for bends is inconsistent at the moment, and I don't know of any authority being sued because of a sign that "should" have been there. On the contrary, signing, as well as being inconsistent, tends to be retrospective to casualties at a certain location.

I do think there is some merit in a grading for bends, and/or a warning of tightening radius.

[exportmanuk]

No need if you have sat-nav!

You driving a vehicle or A COMPUTER GAME?

[Horse]

my understanding is the more chevrons, the more severe the bend but I don't know if this is regulated.

Are you sure about that? One of the tips I've been given previously is that more chevron signs often means a less severe bend as there is space for multiple signs, while on a very tight bend there is often only space for a single chevron board.

My understanding was that the more arrows the higher the 'rank' of the bend: 'lance corporal', 'corporal', 'sgt' etc. and the tighter the bend.

But they can also, by their angle to you (like the limit point, which is useful 'signage' all bends have) can help with assessment. And they can show elevation changes too, often with a 'long range' set mounted high, and a close range set lower on the same posts.

There are often sets of signs (one bend I know of has, I think, 8 sets of chevron signs), which show how a bend continues. That's the 'waterworks' bend near Shalden on the Alton-Basingstoke A339 - a regular bike crash location . . .

Examples of all the above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMg2-O6iB0o
4:55 for 'that' bend, with 7 or 8 sets of chevrons while heading south.

There are other occasions when a single bend warning sign in a sequence of [unsigned, but following a 'bends for one mile sign'] bends shows you that particular bend is likely to be tighter.

And if signs were to be graded, what about camber, surface, etc. I'm no Mystic Meg, but I'd predict trouble sooner or later . . .

[Horse]

Also:

WYLIWYG

http://www.homezones.org.uk/documents/W ... ooklet.pdf