Insurance question

[morsing]

Hi, my first post here and it's not even really driving related, hope that's ok. Have been reading posts here occassionally for a while.

I basically had an 'incident' a long time ago where someone drove into me trying to over-take through a small roundabout. The other party is blaming me 100% and my insurance company sent me a completely random old court case which had no resemblance to this incident whatsoever, trying to get me to accept a 50/50 split liability settlement. I said no and wrote a report back to them explaining that if this went to court I would win.

I have now received a reply along the lines of "It's not worth going to court, please sign the settlement and send back".

I have a couple of questions hoping someone here might be able to answer by chance:

1) I have absolutely no idea what my opponent is accusing me off. Do I have any right to ask for the case papers including his description of the events?

2) Do I have any right demanding this goes to court?

3) Do I have any way or right of finding out who his insurance company is? Could we possibly both be insured with the same company, which explains their dis-interest?

Thanks in advance

[jcochrane]

Have sent you a PM.

[morsing]

Thanks, but not really what I was after. Was hoping someone could answer my three questions...

[ScoobyChris]

Imvho, you're better off approaching someone like CAB or a legal helpline to find out where you stand and what your rights are

Chris

[morsing]

Imvho, you're better off approaching someone like CAB or a legal helpline to find out where you stand and what your rights are

Chris

CAB, ok, will give them a ring. Are there any kind of governement legal helpline? I've been Googling for days and nothing really comes up.

[michael769]

1) I have absolutely no idea what my opponent is accusing me off. Do I have any right to ask for the case papers including his description of the events?

Yes. You have the right to obtain all information your insurer holds about you, including about this incident. There should be an address in your policy documents (under the "data protection" or "important information" section). You insurer has the right to charge you a small fee for processing your request. If any of the information is incorrect you also have the right to get it corrected.

But before you go down the formal road do have you tried just asking your insurer for a copy of the correspondence they got from the other parties insurer? In my experience it is normal practice to make this available to an insured if they are minded to resist a settlement. To be honest I am surprised they have not already done so. It might also be worth asking them to explain why they are looking at a 50:50 split. Are they struggling to place blame either way? Or has it come down to your word against the other party with no other evidence to back you up?

2) Do I have any right demanding this goes to court?

You have the right to take the other party to court to recover your losses, but if you do this against your insurers advice they are unlikely to meet your legal costs. There is a risk that if you lose (your opponent's insurers may probably respond to any case by countersuing you) your insurer may refuse to pay out on the damages on the grounds that you behaved unreasonably and exposed them to unnecessary extra costs.

One thing to consider is that in disputed claims insurers ultimately make decisions based on what they think a court might rule, and they have lots of experience in this area. You would be advised to seek specialist independent legal advice before going down that route. Many solicitors offer a free initial consultation.

If you do feel that your insurer is behaving unreasonably you might want to consider going through their complaints process (details are in the policy document) first. If they reject the complaint you can then take it to the Financial Ombudsman for an independent decision. The ombudsman has a consumer advice line where you can obtain further advice on the complaints process: 0300 123 9 123.

3) Do I have any way or right of finding out who his insurance company is?

It should be included in the documentation you get in any request from 1). Alternatively if the police where involved in the original incident it will be in accident report. You can obtain a copy from the forces HQ, but you will probably need to pay a fee.

[morsing]

Hi Michael, thanks for taking the time to write this, very helpful.

1) I have absolutely no idea what my opponent is accusing me off. Do I have any right to ask for the case papers including his description of the events?

Yes. You have the right to obtain all information your insurer holds about you, including about this incident. There should be an address in your policy documents (under the "data protection" or "important information" section). You insurer has the right to charge you a small fee for processing your request. If any of the information is incorrect you also have the right to get it corrected.

But before you go down the formal road do have you tried just asking your insurer for a copy of the correspondence they got from the other parties insurer? In my experience it is normal practice to make this available to an insured if they are minded to resist a settlement. To be honest I am surprised they have not already done so.

I requested this information a while ago but they ignored my request.

It might also be worth asking them to explain why they are looking at a 50:50 split. Are they struggling to place blame either way? Or has it come down to your word against the other party with no other evidence to back you up?

From their recent letter:

...
As there's no Police Report or independent witness evidence to support either version of the events, we believe that the best course of action would be to settle the file on this basis.

This will mean that you may be unable to pursue any claim for uninsured losses against the third party, however we do not see that there would be any reasonable prospects of recovery.
...

Well, not knowing how the opponent described the events, it's a little bit difficult for me to dismiss, however, the report I wrote back to them quite clearly proved that I would win in court. Based on the old court transcript they sent me however, I can guess what he's said, in which case I will certainly win. This has all been proved in detail in the letter I sent them.

2) Do I have any right demanding this goes to court?

One thing to consider is that in disputed claims insurers ultimately make decisions based on what they think a court might rule, and they have lots of experience in this area. You would be advised to seek specialist independent legal advice before going down that route. Many solicitors offer a free initial consultation.

My insurer, despite being one of Britain's bigger ones I believe, certainly don't seem to have any court experience. Well, it's either that or they're just lazy and don't want to do the work.

They sent me a random court case transript with a completely different road layout and non-whatsoever-related incident. The case was won by whoever was meant to be me, then appealed and went to 50/50 based on two points that are not applicable to my incident due to differences in road layout. When I pointed this out to my insurer they sent me the letter with the above quote. They either don't have a clue about it, just can't be bothered.

It was good reading for me though, as I got an insight into the reasoning used in a court case which has just made me even more sure that I would win.

If you do feel that your insurer is behaving unreasonably you might want to consider going through their complaints process (details are in the policy document) first. If they reject the complaint you can then take it to the Financial Ombudsman for an independent decision. The ombudsman has a consumer advice line where you can obtain further advice on the complaints process: 0300 123 9 123.

Thanks, will respond to insurer first and wait for a response.

3) Do I have any way or right of finding out who his insurance company is?

It should be included in the documentation you get in any request from 1). Alternatively if the police where involved in the original incident it will be in accident report. You can obtain a copy from the forces HQ, but you will probably need to pay a fee.

Well, they wouldn't tell me that either...

Thanks, I've got a bit to go on now. Will keep you posted.

[Angus]

My insurer, despite being one of Britain's bigger ones I believe, certainly don't seem to have any court experience. Well, it's either that or they're just lazy and don't want to do the work.

They probably don't. Did you have legal protection insurance? if so that's who should be fighting on your behalf.

That said, from my experience, the legal people aren't very efficient.

And it doesn't seem to matter how "reputable" the company is - We had an accident some years ago where the other driver pulled out in front of us. He admitted liability (and signed the admission ). He was insured with more than. It took 3 years and court action to recoup everything. Their advertising at the time featured a dog called Lucky, so called, I assume because you'd be f*****g lucky to get money out of them

[michael769]

That said, from my experience, the legal people aren't very efficient.

It often depends on how high the food chain it goes. Most claims are dealt with by claims handlers who apply standard menu responses to claims. If you claim falls outside that or you dispute it it should in theory go up the chain to an accident analyst or investigator. But with those functions being increasingly outsourced to specialist companies there is a lot of pressure to avoid incurring the cost, which means it is getting harder to escalate claims that do not involve injuries or fatalities.

My standard advice is that if you are involved in a collision, and you are happy you are not primarily to blame it is best to try to get police assistance no matter how reasonable the other party is. Getting an independent record of the site, any physical evidence and initial statements (before "witnesses" come out of the woodwork, or the other party(s) have time to mentally embellish their memory of events), along with the officers opinion of what happened is the best tool you can have.

Obviously if you accept you were to blame there is little to be gained from getting a police report.

[morsing]

My standard advice is that if you are involved in a collision, and you are happy you are not primarily to blame it is best to try to get police assistance no matter how reasonable the other party is. Getting an independent record of the site, any physical evidence and initial statements (before "witnesses" come out of the woodwork, or the other party(s) have time to mentally embellish their memory of events), along with the officers opinion of what happened is the best tool you can have.

I've once contacted the police about a collision and they didn't want to know... Not wasting my time on that again.

[martine]

[quote="michael769My standard advice is that if you are involved in a collision, and you are happy you are not primarily to blame it is best to try to get police assistance no matter how reasonable the other party is.[/quote]

Nice idea but my understanding is they won't respond unless someone's injured or you're causing a danger/obstruction to traffic.

[michael769]

Nice idea but my understanding is they won't respond unless someone's injured or you're causing a danger/obstruction to traffic.

Policies probably vary from force to force. Both Strahclyde and Lothian and Borders forces are are happy to assist unless there is too much demand on them at the time - I would not give much for your chances of seeing an officer just after pub/club closing time for example. Even then you get asked if you are willing to wait an hour or so. It is kind of their duty to attend, as in any collision there is the potential that a offence under Sect 2 or 3 of the RTA may have been committed. How do they know if there is not enough evidence or the incident is not serious enough to warrant a report to the CPS/PF if they don't bother to investigate?

I would have thought that the English forces would at least be able to rustle up a PCSO - give them something more constructive to do that harassing photographers .

[Flexibase]

My IAM Group had an excellent talk this week from a former Police Accident Investigator, now a Solicitor's Accident Investigator who is regarded as an "expert witness" by the Courts on road collision matters.

His talk was enjoyable and enlightening about the difference between police and civil crash investigations.

He offers to speak to any IAM or RoSPA Groups (he is a RoSPA Examiner), and also offers free initial advice by telephone.

So, although he usually deals with serious, i.e. fatal, matters, it is probably worth a chat with him.

He is Tony Carter, of McMillan Williams solicitors, tel. 01689 848311 tony.carter@mwsolicitors.co.uk

[morsing]

Hi again,

I've had several exchanges with my insurance company regarding this and what a surprise, as expected my opponent is insured with them as well! I already suspected this was causing their reluctance to do anything.

They're still refusing to proceed with this claim and are trying to force me to accept the 50/50 proposal. Can I write to the ombudsman about this or how do I proceed?

[michael769]

They're still refusing to proceed with this claim and are trying to force me to accept the 50/50 proposal. Can I write to the ombudsman about this or how do I proceed?

The ombudsman normally only considers complaints after you have used your insurers complaints process so you first need to complain to your insurer directly (using the address given for complaints in the policy documents) make sure you clearly mark your letter as being a formal complaint. I would recommend that you suggest that the situation is creating a conflict of interest and may be making it difficult for them to render a properly objective decision in you case, and that your complaint might be addressed by referring the the decision about liability to an independent third party such as an arbitrator.

Your insurers will (eventually) issue you with a "final response" to the complaint detailing their position. If you are unhappy with that response (or they fail to issue one within 12 weeks) you can then complain to the ombudsman. More info can be found on their website.