Just lost some NCB :(

[Jonathan]

It's time for another of those "what could I have done differently?" moments.

Situation as follows: wide residential road subject to a 30 limit and no parked cars, I'm follwing another car at a safe distance and there's another car behind me. Car in front of me becomes very hesitent, slows considerably to about walking pace for maybe 5 or 6 seconds. It's a wide straight road, nothing oncoming and the car behind isn't moving out yet so I decide to pass, only just as I'm level with the car I'd been following she turns right across me into a driveway only beginning to signal as she does so. I didn't have space to avoid contact, but thankfully the only harm was to our bumpers and my pride. Should I have given her longer before deciding to pass? Might a horn warning have been appropriate? Assume nobody bothers with mirrors or knows how to use their signals appropriately?

Subsequent discussions with my insurers suggest I'm at fault as far as they're concerned, so I guess it'll be one to put down to experience. Interestingly, in making her claim the TP suggested I'd attempted to pass both the car behind me and her, which was not the case but suggests to me she probably wasn't fully aware of what was going on behind before turning. Obviously the insurers also have the details of the driver of the following car as a witness not involved.

I'm kicking myself for not seeing this one developing

[Custom24]

Should I have given her longer before deciding to pass? Might a horn warning have been appropriate? Assume nobody bothers with mirrors or knows how to use their signals appropriately?

I think you've hit the nail on the head twice with this part of your post, especially the second sentence. Thanks for sharing your experience - it's reinforced my wariness in such situations. I hope everything gets sorted out without too much hassle.

[ROG]

Car in front of me becomes very hesitent, slows considerably to about walking pace for maybe 5 or 6 seconds

My immediate thought every time in this situation is - what are they looking for/lost/about to do ?????

Experience has shown me this so many times and I also did it when truck driving - but I did not suddenly turn without signals or good mirror checks !!

[jont]

Should I have given her longer before deciding to pass? Might a horn warning have been appropriate? Assume nobody bothers with mirrors or knows how to use their signals appropriately?

I think you've hit the nail on the head twice with this part of your post, especially the second sentence.

Sorry to say I agree with Mark. I think I would have tried a horn warning while holding steady behind. In some situations that can be enough that the driver realises they are holding someone up and indicates their intention. I suspect if they were focusing very carefully on looking for a house, they probably weren't paying much attention to their mirrors.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

My only moving accident on the roads occurred in this way, about 25 years ago. Now I'm very wary about overtaking people moving very slowly, for just that reason.

I'm afraid I don't agree with those who advocate horn warnings in this scenario. The correct thing to do in this situation IMHO is to hang back and wait to see what the driver in front is doing. Passing them is just asking for trouble, and horn warnings only serve to make us seem more impatient than we really wish to appear.

[fungus]

I think I would press the insurers to go 50/50, but as ever so much depends on witness statements which can be very inacurate. Re; my daughters accident last year where one witness described her car as red, when it is blue with silver checks, and the other witness said that she hit the third party pushing him accross the junction, when he actualy hit the rear N/S of her car spinning it 180 degrees ending up on the pavement on her left.

[Jonathan]

At the time I assumed the driver was lost and consulting a map or something. I didn't really think about the horn until it was way too late anyway. I'll certainly be extra wary in future.

Accepting I'm fallible I find it an important part of my recovery to share these things when they happen, otherwise I'd just go on beating myself up! It is frustrating when you put in the effort to do something about raising your standard of driving and then end up getting penalised when you let yourself get caught out by someone else's mistake or bad practice... and they go away perhaps never realising they did anything wrong.

Never mind, I can at least console myself with thoughts of the drive down to Le Mans next week.

[Gareth]

horn warnings only serve to make us seem more impatient than we really wish to appear.

A very short horn warning shouldn't be misconstrued. A long blast would be.

[GJD]

horn warnings only serve to make us seem more impatient than we really wish to appear.

A very short horn warning shouldn't be misconstrued. A long blast would be.

I agree.

If the OP waited 5 or 6 seconds that could well be long enough if nothing has happened to suggest the driver in front might be about to do something. All the comments about patience, and lost people not paying attention and doing surprising things are valid, but you can't wait for ever. If you decide to pass, I'd go for a horn warning (from an overtaking position behind and outside, not a tailgating position, so further helping to avoid the horn being misconstrued), give them a wide berth, and keep an eagle eye on their head movements and steering wheel if possible.

But remember that these are all defensive driving ideas - i.e. intended to help you avoid being part of someone else's accident. At the end of the day, you are allowed to overtake people and they are not allowed to drive into you. From the OP's description I'm very surprised that the insurer's think you're at fault and I can't quite imagine how they could argue that.

[ScoobyChris]

Sorry to hear that Jonathon - nothing really to add to what's been said above but I hope you get it sorted quickly and painlessly

Chris

[JamesAllport]

I drove recently with a police instructor who suggested that, when you're wondering whether another car's about to do something dodgy (i.e. turn across you or in this case into you), you get the earliest warning from watching the wheels, rather than the whole car. I'm trying to apply this in my own driving at the moment, so can't say I'm completely convinced yet, but it's an interesting thought.

James

[Jonathan]

I'm waiting to see what I get in writing from Admiral, then I'll decide whether it's worth disputing.

Now to cap it all someone's just taken out the o/s mirror on my other car whilst rather rapidly passing a long line of parked cars on their side of the street. I really don't think there was much I could've done to avoid them this time either.

Ever so slightly not happy.

Thanks for the constructive thoughts & ideas though.

[AnalogueAndy]

Difficult to judge without being there, could you see her mirror was she looking in it, could you see her looking at properties on the RH side etc?

If any of the above, I'd probably have said "wait" if not, and no indication she was doing anything other than dawdling on the left I'd have gone with postion so she can see me (although it sounds like she could but just wasn't using her mirrors), wait a few more seconds and then short 'toot' horn warning followed up by friendly 'thank you' hand signal.

Had a similar situation with a colleague driving many years ago, transit van waiting to TR on busy road. Enough room for us to squeeze past down the LHS but only just, he hung back rather than push through, still a steady stream of oncoming traffic though, 10 seconds or so and the guy behind honks impatiently, so we move forward into the gap, cautiously... Just as van man decides to give up on his RH turn and continue straight ahead, or rather pulling left scraping down the side of our wing

Since then I've always gone with the idea that caution cost seconds but could save you pounds..

[zadocbrown]

I drove recently with a police instructor who suggested that, when you're wondering whether another car's about to do something dodgy (i.e. turn across you or in this case into you), you get the earliest warning from watching the wheels, rather than the whole car. I'm trying to apply this in my own driving at the moment, so can't say I'm completely convinced yet, but it's an interesting thought.

James

It's true. Surprisingly useful on the motorway, and also roundabouts. Doubtful whether it would have helped the OP in his particular situation though.

[GJD]

you get the earliest warning from watching the wheels, rather than the whole car.

It's true. Surprisingly useful on the motorway, and also roundabouts. Doubtful whether it would have helped the OP in his particular situation though.

I've heard it suggested for motorways before too. But I wasn't sure whether the first indication was supposed to be seeing the wheels turn slightly, or seeing the gap between the wheels and the white lines of the lane markings reduce.