Are non UK licence holders at risk?

[martine]

I've often thought it wrong to have automatic entitlement to drive in the UK on the basis of an EU licence but I have no evidence either way to back up this 'gut feel'. Does anyone know if KSI stats are collected on the basis of licence type and if so, are they published anywhere?

Please I'm trying not to suggest anything racist and I wouldn't want anyone here to contribute on that basis - it's just with different standards, local practices and no common Highway code across the EU I believe it's fundamentally flawed and potentially dangerous.

[jont]

What about holidays etc? Someone driving over here regularly (or for 6 months at a time) probably copes better than the tourist doing a couple of weeks every few years.

[vonhosen]

I don't know about licences held, but they detail foreign registered vehicles in the stats.

[martine]

What about holidays etc? Someone driving over here regularly (or for 6 months at a time) probably copes better than the tourist doing a couple of weeks every few years.

I don't know - both could be risky...some stats would be good. How do you balance the risk of a tourist who's probably very aware of driving in a foreign country, with a long-term immigrant who may continue to drive poorly over many years?

What concerns me most are the testing standards in some EU countries...I imagine some are very different in comparison to the UK's and why should I be able to drive long-term with no requirement for a test (practical or theory) in say Germany or France or...Latvia Just doesn't seem right to me but it might not be a problem in practice.

[michael769]

From an insurance perspective there is no statistically significant extra risk associated with foreign license holders who are currently resident in the UK - and thus foreign license holders do not face higher premiums from a collision risk perspective. The little extra that they do pay reflects the greater risk that they will leave the country without paying excesses and the like.

That does not mean there is no extra risk just that we cannot detect one statistically - there are not really enough of them to distinguish any impact they have out of the general randomness built into collision stats.

[jont]

What about holidays etc? Someone driving over here regularly (or for 6 months at a time) probably copes better than the tourist doing a couple of weeks every few years.

I don't know - both could be risky...some stats would be good. How do you balance the risk of a tourist who's probably very aware of driving in a foreign country, with a long-term immigrant who may continue to drive poorly over many years?

What concerns me most are the testing standards in some EU countries...I imagine some are very different in comparison to the UK's and why should I be able to drive long-term with no requirement for a test (practical or theory) in say Germany or France or...Latvia Just doesn't seem right to me but it might not be a problem in practice.

TBH, I'm more concerned about the poor standards I see every day from UK drivers, before you even get to repeat offenders for drink driving/no license/no insurance/unroadworthy car etc etc.

[Standard Dave]

Statistics are collated on none British registered vehicles involved in collisions.

I would be more worried about coming across none EU licence holders driving on an international permit.

[martine]

Statistics are collated on none British registered vehicles involved in collisions.

I would be more worried about coming across none EU licence holders driving on an international permit.

Why?

[martine]

From an insurance perspective there is no statistically significant extra risk associated with foreign license holders who are currently resident in the UK

That's interesting - thanks.

[Flexibase]

Extract from that ever-useful reference and training CD:"Advanced Driving / Motorycling" ( www.flexibase.org.uk):

"Foreign goods vehicle drivers are:
Three times more likely to be involved in crashes*
Four times more likely to be driving whilst tired*
*Kent Police, ITV “Tonight” , 31 March 2008. http://www.itv.com/News/tonight/episode ... fault.html
In the last five years, accidents involving lorries coming into Britain have risen by almost 50% (Dept of Transport)
1,366 people in 2006 were killed or injured on British roads in collisions with heavy goods vehicle from abroad.
(44 killed and 1,322 injured)*"

It also includes an item from The Daily Telegraph of 10/05/09:
"...From March 2008 to March 2009 foreign lorries were "at fault" in one of every 378 traffic acccidents handled by accident management specialist Accident Exchange (AE), a 10.07 rise over the previous year...the most common factor was "side-swiping" when other vehicles are caught in the lorry's blind spot as its driver changes lane. This accounted for almost half of all reported accidents, with the M25 the worst for collisions.

"In nearly one third of the cases. says (AE), victims were unable to pusue claims against overseas drivers....Under the revised Road Safety Act, Vehicle Operator Servces Agency (VOSA) officers and police can now issue fixed penalties of up to £900 to drivers of foreign vehicles of they commit offences.

"The Association of British Insurers says that mile for mile, overseas-registered lorries are three time more likely to be invoplved in collisions than UK-registered ones. However, the Road Haulage Association says that truck droivers are not always to blame, and that car drivers who don't understand the "blind spot hazard" of left hand drive trucks contribute to the accident figures."

[Gareth]

I'm more concerned about the poor standards I see every day from UK drivers

I'm mostly worried about how much this applies to my driving. Maybe it applies to the driving of others but it's just too much effort to consider that as well

[Flexibase]

Ref your:

> I'm mostly worried about how much this applies to my driving. Maybe it applies to the driving of others but it's just too much effort to consider that as well.

I must confess to being really concerned at that comment. I am reminded of the oft heard phrase "suddenly ... I couldn't help it"

May I suggest that the questionable safety standards of other road users should be of prime concern to all road users and is why advanced drivers spend (or should spend) so much time on observation, anticipation of the likely actions of others and flexible planning to avoid a collision!

The observation of foreign number plates is a start but, of course, that won't help us with new arrivals driving UK registered vehicles, so we have to look at the other usual factors, e.g. vehicle condition, passengers / load, speed, position etc.!

[ScoobyChris]

What concerns me most are the testing standards in some EU countries...

I have a bit of first hand experience of this and imvho, the problem isn't with the test standard in the EU country, it's the (subtle) differences in rules between the countries. I don't think many EU drivers have any real problems in the mechanics of making a car move (any more than their UK counterparts anyhow) but it's very easy, for example, to make assumptions based on what one is familiar with and things such as priorities, or how much of a part they play in driving, may well leave them in hot water.

The same is also true when UK drivers drive abroad.

I guess until we have one unified set of rules and regulations (and everyone drives on the correct side of the road ) the problem will exist.

Chris

[Standard Dave]

Statistics are collated on none British registered vehicles involved in collisions.

I would be more worried about coming across none EU licence holders driving on an international permit.

Why?

Because there are many countries outside of the EU where you still obtain a driving licence by bribary or a simple car control test rather than a driving test. There are also a large number of forged licences due to lower standards of the security features I get documents every week of so from the French authorities about forged docs and recognition features for EU law enforcement.

The number of prosecutions I make against none UK and none EU licence holder is high due generally to their total lack of understanding of driving and vehicle maintainance or a disregard for the law in this country.

[Gareth]

May I suggest that the questionable safety standards of other road users should be of prime concern to all road users and is why advanced drivers spend (or should spend) so much time on observation, anticipation of the likely actions of others and flexible planning to avoid a collision!

I don't disagree with your point, but it seems entirely orthogonal to my point (unknown unknowns).