Newer Vehicles Vision

[NalaGee]

Looking around at many of the new cars produced in the last couple years, including the new models just coming onto the Market, IMO the styling now is so streamlined with many rounded corners that the side and rear windows have such restricted viewing when driving.

With the head restraints in some models being fairly high on rear passenger seats the rear window vision is very restrictive to check for following vehicles.

The new model Kia Sportage is one such example, I'm sure that there are quite a few others that Forum readers can mention.
Wondered if any members here have recently purchased a vehicle and find the side/ rear vision limited and if so, how they've overcome the problem ?

Are todays Auto Designers getting carried away in trying to make cars more fuel efficient by reducing window areas to give the overall body area a smoother line to avoid drag ?

[Horse]

It's more to do with body strength (NCAP etc) than streamlining.

Hence higher 'waist' line (so high windows), thicker pillars etc.

Ironically, loss of vision may cause those very strengths to be tested . . .

[TripleS]

Looking around at many of the new cars produced in the last couple years, including the new models just coming onto the Market, IMO the styling now is so streamlined with many rounded corners that the side and rear windows have such restricted viewing when driving.

With the head restraints in some models being fairly high on rear passenger seats the rear window vision is very restrictive to check for following vehicles.

The new model Kia Sportage is one such example, I'm sure that there are quite a few others that Forum readers can mention.
Wondered if any members here have recently purchased a vehicle and find the side/ rear vision limited and if so, how they've overcome the problem ?

Are todays Auto Designers getting carried away in trying to make cars more fuel efficient by reducing window areas to give the overall body area a smoother line to avoid drag ?

I don't know about it being done with the aim of reducing drag, but I certainly prefer the more rounded body styles rather than boxy shapes. The reduced vision out of modern cars, especially to the rear, seems to be partly caused by headrests, as you say, but also higher boot lines and thicker pillars. I expect the higher boot line is to do with providing more boot capacity, and the thicker pillars are in the interests of greater strength in the event of a crash; but I suspect the thicker pillars are making collisions more likely. For example, there is now more danger of failing to spot a motorcyclist to your right as you enter a roundabout.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Horse]

For example, there is now more danger of failing to spot a motorcyclist to your right as you enter a roundabout.

Bike? I can - have - 'lost' a car in both A pillars of our SEAT Altea.

Designers go to extraordinary lengths to improve aerodynamics. For example, the rear wheels of the Altea are closer together than the fronts; when viewed from above the car has a definite 'teardrop' shape. However, the flip side is smaller, narrower mirrors which don't give a vie of the narrow back end . . .

[Renny]

Looking around at many of the new cars produced in the last couple years, including the new models just coming onto the Market, IMO the styling now is so streamlined with many rounded corners that the side and rear windows have such restricted viewing when driving.

<snip>
Wondered if any members here have recently purchased a vehicle and find the side/ rear vision limited and if so, how they've overcome the problem ?

I chose not to buy certain models because of limited visibility 4 years ago before I bought the Fabia, now I'm looking to change again and my short-list of cars without significant visibility restrictions is getting even shorter. I've scored out; Honda Jazz and Civic, Fiat Punto and Panda, Seat Leon (Ibeza was not bad, but hated the reflections of the dash in the 'screen and speedo that needed lights on during the day to see it clearly), VW Scirroco, Toyota IQ and probably a few others. The current trend to steeply raked windscreens with low rooflines coupled with small rear windows and large rear pillars is very restrictive on visibility.

At the moment a MINI is quite high on my possible purchase list. I found the relatively upright 'screen pillars didn't impede vision too badly, I could even see the wing tops. Any other suggestions?

[Gareth]

For example, the rear wheels of the Altea are closer together than the fronts

Did you think this was something new?

[martine]

I've never driven one but I've always thought the rear vision in one of these must be pretty bad...perhaps mitigated if the 'blacked-out' part of the rear window is actually transparent from inside?

[TripleS]

For example, there is now more danger of failing to spot a motorcyclist to your right as you enter a roundabout.

Bike? I can - have - 'lost' a car in both A pillars of our SEAT Altea.

Designers go to extraordinary lengths to improve aerodynamics. For example, the rear wheels of the Altea are closer together than the fronts....

There might be a lot of models where the front and rear track is not the same, but I can't imagine they would normally differ by much. The first car I remember seeing with a much narrower rear track was the 2.4 Jaguar saloon that appeared in 1955. They really did look quite narrow from the rear, but I wouldn't have thought it was done for aerodynamic reasons. it might have been done in order to use a standard rear axle assembly.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[gannet]

Can't say I've noticed that many problems out the rear view window...

Cannot say the same about the front A-pillars in my wife's Mazda 2... though she has more difficulty than me being shorter. You could potentially lose a truck if not vigilant

[WhoseGeneration]

So, are we suggesting a lack of "joined up thinking" from those who decide the crash standards and those who would want drivers to have good allround visibility?
Unintended consequences?

[TripleS]

So, are we suggesting a lack of "joined up thinking" from those who decide the crash standards and those who would want drivers to have good allround visibility?
Unintended consequences?

Yes, I think so.

I've long felt that stylists have ruled the roost too much in car design, to the detriment of sensible design principles.

For example: front flashers used to be separate from headlight areas, and rear flashers used to be separate from the stop lights, and therefore they didn't mask each other.

Now we have them combined in lamp clusters, sometimes with brake lights forming an annulus around the rear flashers, or vice versa; and at the front we have flashers that can't be seen against the glare of headlights.

I guess this is what we call progress!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Horse]

Designers go to extraordinary lengths to improve aerodynamics. For example, the rear wheels of the Altea are closer together than the fronts....

There might be a lot of models where the front and rear track is not the same, but I can't imagine they would normally differ by much.

. . . it might have been done in order to use a standard rear axle assembly.

It's a noticeably 'teardrop' shaped car when viewed from above (ie looking at the plan drawing in the brochure ).

As far as common parts goes, it's the same - AFAIK - chassis as the Leon and as the Golf. But even if using a common part, there's no reason why it shouldn't be selected for its width rather than despite it.


TBH I wasn't aware that it was a common, 'historic', thing.

[Susie]

IMHO, you can overcome the 'technical advances' in design by being more flexible in your all-round searches - for example, if you lean forward* before entering a roundabout, you can check the area obscured by the A pillar. Similar movement will increase the information in your door mirrors and a motorbike style shoulder check will help you see round the B and C pillars. We're not going to influence the car designers, so let's thank them for giving us the need to have a mild exercise regime

*it's a bit difficult in a Caterham if you strap yourself in properly

[Horse]

you can overcome the 'technical advances' in design by being more flexible in your all-round searches - for example, if you lean forward* before entering a roundabout, you can check the area obscured by the A pillar. Similar movement will increase the information in your door mirrors and a motorbike style shoulder check will help you see round the B and C pillars.

Agreed . . . to a point. However hard you crane, it's impossible to see the rear corners (such as they are) without unbelting, opening the door and climbing out

I wonder whether this active - literally - searching is adequately covered by ADIs for when their trainees move on to larger, more substantial, vehicles.

Also it's an issue for our ageing population where mobility - particularly of the neck - is an issue.

[TripleS]

We're not going to influence the car designers....

Pah, defeatist talk!

All manner of things can be influenced in a better direction if enough pressure can be brought to bear. It's not usually easy, I appreciate that, but give any product enough bad publicity, and let the manufacturers see their sales dropping, and then they'll start to listen; or else....

I think people should make their feelings known, then they at least have a chance of influencing things.

Best wishes all,
Dave.