ADUK Archive

Hi, I'm new to this forum first of all so hello to you guys. I would appreciate some help and advice from yourselves as I am not sure where to go with this one. I was involved in a car accident yesterday at a roundabout. I was in the inside lane and was taking the 5th exit as shown on the image below. I was indicating right the whole time and there are no road markings on the roundabout or on the exit i came off from to indicate which lane cars should be in.

The van on the inside lane was taking the exit as shown below and hit into my drivers side door with force. I pulled up immediately and took his details, he was adamant it was my fault and I was adamant it was his. There was absolutely no damage to his van and a substantial amount of damage to my drivers side door. There were witnesses but no one that stopped at all.



I apologise for the extremely messy drawing.

I'm not sure who is in the wrong here and I would like an idea before contacting insurance. Also my no claims are unprotected, if the insurance see it as 50/50 or in my favour am I still likely to lose these? Any advice/assistance would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Yes you'd lose your no NCB.

mark240 wrote:I'm not sure who is in the wrong here

You left out enough detail to make it difficult for us to make a judegement - clearly you don't want the world and his dog know where this happened but does that really matter? A link to Google Maps would enable us to also see the 'Satellite' view which might help clarify some of the issues.

You haven't mentioned how many lanes leading onto the roundabout, nor how many lanes there are on the roundabout, nor how many lanes there are in the 5th exit. Was the van driver attempting to also take the 5th exit?

In the absence of such detail we're left with one of the default driving rules -- not using a left lane to turn right at a roundabout -- plus a safety rule about not going onto a roundabout nor continuing around it parallel to another vehicle.

It appears that your car was alongside the van for more than half the roundabout; it may be that you were in his blind spot for so long that he thought you couldn't possibly still be there, so thought it was safe to move to the left lane prior to taking his chosen exit.

On what little information you've given, I'd say that you would bear most of the responsibility for the collision, but there may be other factors that help to paint a different picture.

Like Gareth, I would question why you were using the L/H lane to turn right. The normal practice would be to use the R/H lane for exits beyond 12-o clock unless lane markings dictate otherwise. Although it is not a good idea to enter a roundabout at the same time as another driver, it can be difficult at busy times when you have an impatient driver behind you.

Another point. If you are in the R/H lane, and you check the interior and N/S door mirror and give a left shoulder check, if there is a vehicle comming up on your N/S, you have the option of maintaining your right signal and going around again if it's not safe to change lanes.

Thanks for your replies and sorry for not including enough information. There was two lanes heading into the roundabout. Although there are no markings on the road to indicate this. There are also no markings on the roundabout to indicate seperate lanes. The van driver was taking the 4th exit and there are two lanes going into both the 4th exit and the 5th. I am unsure of how to post a google location so I have taken a screenshot to show the roundabout and the lanes leading to the roundabout. I joined the roundabout in the same position that the black peugeout is in. Also I wasn't alongside the driver the whole time, I was ahead the majority of the time, which is why the front of his car hit the drivers side of mine.

Hmmm it doesnt show the full pic for some reason. Here is the direct link:

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/picgr.jpg/

To avoid loss of no claims bonus while making a claim you would have to establish that the crash was entirely the fault of the other guy. However, your choice of lane was clearly contrary to the HIghway Code: 'When taking an exit to the right or going full circle ... signal right and approach in the right-hand lane, keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout'. Your crash demonstrates the danger of your choice of lane.

I therefore think it unlikely that you will be able to make a claim and keep your NCB. You should consider paying for the repairs yourself, as this may work out cheaper in the long run.

In spite of my negative comments above, I consider that the van driver was also very much at fault, and indeed rather more so. To quote the Highway Code again: 'In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to ..... traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout [and] traffic which may be .... positioned incorrectly. Once you had chosen the wrong lane, it does not sound as though there is anything you could have done to avoid the crash, whereas he could and should have given way to you and passed behind you.

If you are going to make a claim, it must be worth trying to argue that it was all his fault for these reasons. You would also emphasise your use of the right indicator and the fact that he was at least somewhat behind you. Good luck.

Since you have found this site, however this turns out, you may like to take steps to become a better driver in future ....

mark240 wrote:I am unsure of how to post a google location

That's OK, here it is.

WELCOME

Unless there was some special reason for you to use the nearside lane (large vehicle, horse, bicycle etc) then using the lane you did is contrary to the safe advice advice in the highway code

Why did you choose to use the inner lane to turn right

Honestly, the reason I was in the left lane was because I was unsure of which exit to take so I thought I would stay in that lane just in case. I was always ahead of the van so would definately have been in his line of sight and indicated right the whole way round.

If I was to leave it and the van driver decides to contact his insurer to claim for whiplash or something (even though there was absolutely no damage to his van), I would still lose my no claims wouldn't I? Also does anyone know wether you are obliged to contact your insurers within a certain period of time.

Thanks for your replies as I have not been in this situation before and am still quite unsure as to what I should do!

mark240 wrote:Honestly, the reason I was in the left lane was because I was unsure of which exit to take so I thought I would stay in that lane just in case. I was always ahead of the van so would definately have been in his line of sight and indicated right the whole way round.

If I was to leave it and the van driver decides to contact his insurer to claim for whiplash or something (even though there was absolutely no damage to his van), I would still lose my no claims wouldn't I? Also does anyone know wether you are obliged to contact your insurers within a certain period of time.

Thanks for your replies as I have not been in this situation before and am still quite unsure as to what I should do!

Hi
I had a similar accident a few years ago, except that the situation was reversed. A foreign truck who was lost was in the "wrong" lane. I thought he was committed to the exit he seemed to be taking (which I also was taking, in the right hand lane), but he decided that he didn't want that exit after all and hit the back of my car. I would say that accident was 30% my fault and 70% his. I should have kept out of his way, and I should have spotted that it was a foreign truck.

What I do when I approach a roundabout unsure of my exit is to get in and stay in the right hand lane, and if it ends up that I need to go around the roundabout even a couple of times to get my bearings, it doesn't matter, because I am then doing what other traffic expects, in addition to what the Highway Code says.

Sat Nav has for me removed a lot of stress of taking the wrong exit at a roundabout, or otherwise getting lost. Not only are you less likely to get lost in the first place (although I still manage it ), but even if you do, it doesn't matter as you can get back on track pretty quickly.

As far as I understand it, there is no reason not to tell your insurer about this, because you are required to tell them (or any other insurer you ask for a quote). The wording of what they ask you is something like
"Have you, or any of the other proposed drivers, in the last 5 years, had any accidents, claims of losses regardless of blame".

So even if you take it on the chin now, if you're being honest, you'll have to fess up sooner or later. And I think being dishonest with insurers is a road you don't want to go down.

mark240 wrote:the reason I was in the left lane was because I was unsure of which exit to take

Custom24 wrote:What I do when I approach a roundabout unsure of my exit is to get in and stay in the right hand lane, and if it ends up that I need to go around the roundabout even a couple of times to get my bearings, it doesn't matter, because I am then doing what other traffic expects, in addition to what the Highway Code says.

Ditto that Custom24

Custom24 wrote:So even if you take it on the chin now, if you're being honest, you'll have to fess up sooner or later. And I think being dishonest with insurers is a road you don't want to go down.

Hi again
To clarify my own comments above, as far as I understand it, there are two separate components (among others) which go into calculating your insurance premium

1. Your no claims bonus
2. Your accident history

Your NCB should only be affected if you decide to make a claim. But you might have a protected NCB, if you took that option when you took the insurance.

Your accident history is affected now, regardless. The only thing you could do is lie when they ask the question "Any claims, accidents of losses regardless of blame". Even if the incident was settled entirely in your favour, you'd still have to tell them about the accident when it came to renewal time, and it would still affect the premium (maybe only slightly in the case of a non-fault accident).

I think people get these two aspects mixed up, and to be fair, the insurers don't make it all that clear.

If you decide not to make a claim, and make the repairs yourself, or don't bother and just drive around a damaged (but roadworthy) car, then I'm not sure if you need to tell your insurers about it now or if it can wait until the next time you are asked the question. Have a look in your policy booklet.

Welcome Mark, and commiserations on your accident.

As others have said, there is fault on both sides, and if the insurance company choose to charge it all to your account, that will be unfortunate, but hard to argue with.

I would suggest you use this opportunity, as you've found the forum and the community, to start along the path of more advanced driving, which will help you to keep out of similar situations in the future. Both you and the van driver did nearly a full circuit of the roundabout. Therefore the likelihood is that he was going to exit the roundabout at some point. If you were unsure of your exit, you could have taken some precautions to ensure that he wasn't likely to come into conflict with you when he exited, by being either fully ahead of or behind him. If you were going most of the way round the roundabout, the logical course would be to hug the inside of the roundabout, and as the other Mark says, if that meant going round twice, so be it, at least second time round you'd be very sure of your exit and able to plan a nice safe space to take it from.

I hope you don't mind the advice you've received. We are all sympathetic, even if we don't seem to be unilaterally on your side. Good luck with the claim. At worst, it's a loss of some NCB (hopefully not all). You might consider protected NCB on your next policy - it's not usually a huge surcharge.

Cheers.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Good luck with the claim. At worst, it's a loss of some NCB (hopefully not all). You might consider protected NCB on your next policy - it's not usually a huge surcharge.

Although even if you have protected NCB, don't expect that your premium won't rise in the event of a claim. The insurer will argue that having had a claim you are now a higher risk, so although the notional discount will remain the same, the initial policy cost is likely to be higher.