questions from an oklahoman

[trkkshotbry]

Hi all;

I am Bryan from Oklahoma in the USA and I have a few questions about driving in England specifically how it differs from driving here in Oklahoma and drivers attitudes.

Here in the states driving a car is largely considered to be a right and a necessary part or life as making a living without a car would be very difficult due to the almost total lack of public transportation and the great distances regularly travelled. The average commuting distance here in the capital of Oklahoma is 12 miles one way. Because of these circumstances I feel that the average driver here in Oklahoma is woefully undertrained and dangerous. Speeding is the rule not the exception and a traffic enforcement officer could easily write citations all day long one after the other and make no difference in the average speed of motorist on his road. In fact he would have more impact sitting in a highly visible location and looking ready to pounce than he would by writing tickets because everybody speeds back up once they realize that the officer is busy and won't be pulling them over. Turn signal useage is a lost art, and laws against camping out in the fast lane are never enforced because proving the violation would be nearly impossible.

Is the driving experience in England similar or vastly different? I look forward to reading the responses and extend my warmest greetings from here in Indian country. Oklahoma is just north of texas right in the middle of the USA in case anyone doesn't know for sure where I'm from.

Thank you in advance,
Bryan

[jont]

Sounds pretty similar to the attitude of many in the UK

/edit to add - Welcome to ADUK!

[ROG]

WELCOME
My brother lives just outside Tulsa - but I think it's less than 24 hours from Tulsa

Our society and the silent political will is to give cars priority over everything even though the politicians make lots of noise about using public transport

Baisc training & testing is ok in the UK but lacks anything after that so drivers are left to their own devises and are kept in line by sanctions if they are caught doing anything wrong - reactive measures instead of proactive measures
To change the system would mean the end of any Govt that tried to change it

That's my view

[Gareth]

I think attitudes and commuting distance tend, in part, to change in proportion to population density. For instance, people living in small market towns probably tend to work locally and travel shorter distances.

In the past I noticed what appeared to be a distinct difference in attitude between drivers in London and drivers in Birmingham, with the London drivers being more impatient and less forgiving of others. This surprised me as Birmingham is also a large conurbation but the population density is significantly lower although still very high.

Both London and Birmingham are positively heaving compared to where I grew up and learned to drive, (Herefordshire), as you can see from the aforementioned link.

[morsing]

Hi,

In my opinion, and I learnt to drive in another country and have also driven in the US, Australia, Germany, France and a couple more countries, the UK drivers are by far the most agressive. On top of that, tail gating is pretty extreme and done by almost everyone.

I've driven thousands of miles through California, LA, SF, Las Vegas and only got tail gated once. I've spoken to a couple of Americans over here and their first comment have also been the British tail gating, unfortunately.

I've had seven different jobs in the UK, and not one of them where using public transport was feasible. Four of my jobs have had an average commute of 50 miles each way, the other three I've had to find tempoary accomodation in walking distance.

Police here could easily hand out fines all day long too but tend to turn the blind eye. People here don't care about the law or being an inconvinience and they'll happily leave their car in any dangerous position if it saves them walking ten meters to a shop

Anyway, that's my moan over Sure someone will tell me I'm overly negative now

[martine]

You're being overly negative, morsing! Some people are as you describe but there are plenty who will do their best to drive (and park well) - it's just sometimes they don't know how.

oklahoman: do you have roundabouts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout) in your state? They are extremely common here. The majority of cars are manual stick-shift - so if you're thinking of visiting you should specify auto if it's important to you.

I'm surprised you say your compatriots tend to exceed the speed limit...my experience of Florida and California was most don't - but perhaps I'm mis-remembering.

[trkkshotbry]

Thank you all for your responses, I guess I was hopeing that everyone would say that drivers in England are all highly trained, extremely courteous, and safe drivers. That way I could at least dream of retireing to England in my old age and enjoy motoring about the countryside with none of the worries a driver faces over here.

Not all driving sucks in Oklahoma though, there are plenty of extremely low enforcement zones where you might encounter one highway patrolman every 20 miles or so and most everyone feels free to step up the pace a notch or 3. Its also nice to know that those areas have no traffic cameras and if you have a fast car or bike and get the jump on the cops you can escape pretty easy.

My main gripe with American drivers would have to be their propensity for camping out in the passing lane right next to another vehicle and creating a rolling road block. Who empowered them to enforce the speed limit anyway? As far as drivers in florida and california obeying the speed limit as a rule I would have to guess that since florida is where anybody with any money wants to retire and california is so congested age and traffic density play a bigger role in drivers speed than here in the wild wild west. Lots of large open spaces and the only way to keep it interesting is to crank the radio up and open the throttle. We have 1 roundabout in Oklahoma city and it appears to confuse the heck out of my fellow okies. We should have more of them as they are so much more efficient at moving traffic than the standard old 4 way.

The more time I spend on the track the less desire I have to speed on public roads so I guess what this whole world needs is more racetracks and stricter licensing requirements. Its ridiculously easy to get a driving license in the USA and there are no currency requirements until you reach 75 years old.

[morsing]

You're being overly negative, morsing! Some people are as you describe but there are plenty who will do their best to drive (and park well) - it's just sometimes they don't know how.

Ok, will be a bit more positive

I'm surprised you say your compatriots tend to exceed the speed limit...my experience of Florida and California was most don't - but perhaps I'm mis-remembering.

I most say I have similar memories.

Oklahoman, I forgot to ask for your reason for asking? Are you coming over?

[morsing]

The more time I spend on the track the less desire I have to speed on public roads so I guess what this whole world needs is more racetracks and stricter licensing requirements. Its ridiculously easy to get a driving license in the USA and there are no currency requirements until you reach 75 years old.

I don't think any country has driver training and testing that goes beyond basic. 10 hours of driving plus some theory and you can pass. That will basically allow you to drive a weapon around in public.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Sweden and Norway have rather more rigorous schemes than many larger European countries.

[trkkshotbry]

Morsing;

No serious reason for asking other than general curiosity and a fervent hope that somewhere out there is a race of people who take driving as seriously as I do. I derive great joy from my cars and my bike and much personal satisfaction from my ability to pilot them up to the razors edge of control, over the line and back again. I think unusual attitude driving ought to be a required course for all drivers if for no other reason than to prevent people from being injured by their own panic reactions where they do the completely wrong thing or even take their hands off the wheel and pray that Jesus drives them out of trouble.

I would love to visit England and someday I shall, but I'm afraid speed shifting with my left hand and turning right across traffic would be too much for my 40 yr old reflexes to handle with anything approaching aplomb. Ill leave driving to the natives until I get a chance to practice in the country and or earn an english driving license just like everyone else I wish to share the road with, if you'll pardon my ending a sentence with a preposition.

[morsing]

Sweden and Norway have rather more rigorous schemes than many larger European countries.

Hi,

Looks similar to Denmark where I took my licence. You can still get away with just over 10 lessons and some theory. Nothing exceptional.

When I had my training in Denmark back in the early '90s you had to have four hours of driving on a special track first. Included basic maneuvering, skidding and breaking in wet and icy conditions, emergency braking, starting uphill etc. After that you need some hours of classroom theory and perception, can't remember how much, and driving lessons which must include one hour driving at night, one hour city driving and two hours motorway driving. I think the minimum number of lessons is 9. I had 10.5.

That wikipedia page said 8 theoretical tests in Sweden but they're most likely part of the same thing. Our vehicle maintenance test was the instructor asking questions about mechanical aspects of the car before the test. Extremely basic and pointless. No understanding required at all.

I think the WikiPedia page makes it sound fancier and better than it is. To get a driving licence in any country is still quick and easy. Try comparing it to get training in any trade or being educated in anything else really. Training for the driving test is easier that any other test I've ever come across...

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Apologies for leaving Denmark out of my list of Scandinavian countries. I just wanted to show that some countries take it slightly more seriously.

Even if the "practice on an off-road facility" is not taken as seriously as it could be, it's still an event that doesn't happen in an English kid's driver training. That was my point, really.

[waremark]

If you make it over here let us know. Some of us enjoy finding empty roads and driving them for pleasure. I am sure you would get an invite to come out driving with an enthusiast who cares as much about their driving as you do; although most of us don't approve of practising limit handling on the public road.

Apart from roundabouts and left hand stick shifts what you would probably find most different is the small size of the roads. Have you ever watched movies set in the uk?

[Custom24]

Even if the "practice on an off-road facility" is not taken as seriously as it could be, it's still an event that doesn't happen in an English kid's driver training. That was my point, really.

The latest I'd heard was that they've stopped doing learner skid training in Sweden because it makes the youngsters over-confident.

Similar argument against under 17 car training reared its head recently.

Even without learner skid training, to my mind it is blatantly obvious that someone's first experience of learning to steer and basic gear changing should not be on the public road, but in a safe environment.

However, it might make them over-confident. Much better to have them wetting the driver seat and liable to crash simply by virtue of experiencing vehicular motion under their own faltering control for the first time.