Tyre temperatures

[Angus]

There's a thread on the IAM forum about winter tyres and the fact that the summer tyres most of us use year round don't "work" below 7C.

I wondered there, how long it takes for tyres to warm to this temperature from freezing, and if you could then expect proper performance from them.

Anyone here able to enlighten me?

[TripleS]

There's a thread on the IAM forum about winter tyres and the fact that the summer tyres most of us use year round don't "work" below 7C.

I wondered there, how long it takes for tyres to warm to this temperature from freezing, and if you could then expect proper performance from them.

Anyone here able to enlighten me?

Certainly not me, sorry. I imagine there are so many variables it would be very difficult to reach a useful conclusion. To my mind this summer tyre versus winter tyre business is a load of nonsense created by a misguided policy adopted by the tyre industry.

Where a driver needs to cope with exceptionally difficult conditions - perhaps as a result of where he lives, or the extent of travelling he needs to do - he might see a benefit in the use of winter tyres; but the idea that all drivers should be expected to switch tyres to suit different times of the year is an added burden that should never have been inflicted on us. Changing tyres to suit the season may be acceptable to the enthusiast, but it's not a viable policy for the masses, and it's not a matter where the law should impose itself.

Given sensible driving, so-called 'summer tyres' will be satisfactory for all year round use for the vast majority of drivers, I would suggest.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Standard Dave]

I'm confused as to what doesn't work, the groves for shifting water are still there. Any mechanical grip between the flat surfaces and road surface is hardly affeced by tyre temperature on a normal road car at any time of year.

The road surface, treatments such as salt or gritting, weight of vehicle and driving style are far more likely to result in different performances between summer and winter weather.

[martine]

...Any mechanical grip between the flat surfaces and road surface is hardly affeced by tyre temperature on a normal road car at any time of year.

Why do you say that? Surely warmer is good?

[TripleS]

I think you need someone like Stressed Dave for the technical stuff, but there does seem to be a large body of evidence that winter tyres are of benefit not only on snow & ice but also at low temperatures.

That may well be so, but only because the tyre industry has sought to give us a bit more grip in summer conditions - when we don't really need it - by adjusting the compounds to that end, the downside being that we then have less grip in cold conditions, especially on snow and ice - which is just the time when we are most likely to need it. I think it was a bad policy and it increases the risk of people having difficulty in winter conditions.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[WS]

There's a thread on the IAM forum about winter tyres and the fact that the summer tyres most of us use year round don't "work" below 7C.

I wondered there, how long it takes for tyres to warm to this temperature from freezing, and if you could then expect proper performance from them.

Anyone here able to enlighten me?

What tyre producers mean by that is a rule of thumb regarding average air temperature - not tyre temperature. Having said that, even at 1C every good summer tyre should be better than winter tyre both in the dry and in the wet (and below zero in the wet too, if the road has been salted). At the same time, winter tyres turn out to be much better on snow and ice.

[fungus]

Given that winter temperatures can vary considerably surely an all purpose tyre is the answer for the majority of motorists. Until recently, I must admit that I thought that tyres sold in the UK were exactly that, although I was aware that in certain parts of Europe it was law to have winter tyres fitted from the end of October until March.

So which tyre should I fit?

Yesterday when I left home the outside temperature was 5.5 degrees c. Two miles down the road when I arrived at my fist pupils home, the temperature was 2 degrees c. An hour later it was 11 degrees c.

[Custom24]

I think Gareth posted this here last winter. I think there is a certain amount of burying of the head in the sand going on.

[WS]

Given that winter temperatures can vary considerably surely an all purpose tyre is the answer for the majority of motorists. Until recently, I must admit that I thought that tyres sold in the UK were exactly that, although I was aware that in certain parts of Europe it was law to have winter tyres fitted from the end of October until March.

So which tyre should I fit?

Yesterday when I left home the outside temperature was 5.5 degrees c. Two miles down the road when I arrived at my fist pupils home, the temperature was 2 degrees c. An hour later it was 11 degrees c.

I think it depends how many days with snow or ice lying on the road there are in your region in an average winter. If you expect there will only be 3-4 such days during the entire winter and for the rest of the time it is going to be around 5C and dry or wet, I would stay with summer or all-season tyres. If you expect it may snow or you may encounter ice on the road fairly often, I would buy winter tyres.

In doubt, I would buy winter tyres too - obviously this is an additional expense but at the same time your summer tyres will then serve you longer because you will use them for only 2/3 of the year, not the whole year.

[TripleS]

Given that winter temperatures can vary considerably surely an all purpose tyre is the answer for the majority of motorists. Until recently, I must admit that I thought that tyres sold in the UK were exactly that, although I was aware that in certain parts of Europe it was law to have winter tyres fitted from the end of October until March.

So which tyre should I fit?

Yesterday when I left home the outside temperature was 5.5 degrees c. Two miles down the road when I arrived at my fist pupils home, the temperature was 2 degrees c. An hour later it was 11 degrees c.

Indeed, your first paragraph tallies with my understanding. I think we should drive in a normal, sensible, competent, prudent fashion (etc!) according to the circumstances, and use normal tyres for all seasons - unless we feel a particular need for winter tyres to cope with especially difficult conditions.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

I think there is a certain amount of burying of the head in the sand going on.

You may see it like that. I tend to see it as people using their own judgement - according to their particular circumstances - and not being swayed by arguments that may not be universally valid.

The video is very good, and if I expected to encounter conditions of ice and snow on a regular basis, I too would be inclined to use winter tyres. My judgement is that they are not justified in my present circumstances.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Standard Dave]

If I ever need to drive on an ice ring I might consider buying a second set of wheel and tyres then spend time changing them over during the colder months to get the correct tyres for todays conditions.
The winter tyres take longer to stop in temperatures above 7C and due to the softer more flexable compound used will wear more quickly. While not as extreme it will be a similar situation to F1 cars driving on wets in the dry.

Whats the cost of 5 suitable wheels and 5 winter tyres for say a Ford Focus (a pretty average car used by a number of fleet and company schemes) ? (on doing some prety basic checks they ain't cheap at least as expensive as premium brand all weather or summer tyres).

[Custom24]

If I ever need to drive on an ice ring I might consider buying a second set of wheel and tyres then spend time changing them over during the colder months to get the correct tyres for todays conditions.
The winter tyres take longer to stop in temperatures above 7C and due to the softer more flexable compound used will wear more quickly. While not as extreme it will be a similar situation to F1 cars driving on wets in the dry.

Whats the cost of 5 suitable wheels and 5 winter tyres for say a Ford Focus (a pretty average car used by a number of fleet and company schemes) ? (on doing some prety basic checks they ain't cheap at least as expensive as premium brand all weather or summer tyres).

The ice rink was for illustrative purposes. There are plenty of other videos showing results in the "real world". I found the ice rink video also illuminating for the reason that another pooh-pooh argument against winter tyres is that they don't make any difference in the ice. Clearly they do.

What is the source of the longer stopping distance for winter tyres above 7degC. I've never seen this before.

In terms of cost, it depends. Winter tyres are about the same cost as summer tyres for similar quality. I tend never to put cheap tyres on my cars, summer or winter. Wheels are extra, granted. I searched around some scrap yards and was uninterested in putting rusting steel wheels on my cars. New steels are almost as expensive as alloys because they're hard to find. Alloys from scrap yards were about half the price of new ones, so I elected to buy new alloys. I did not worry about 5 wheels and tyres, only 4. One of my cars has a full size spare, the other has a space saver. I don't know if it is possible to buy a winter space saver.

In all, for my ordinary Focus-class car, about £550, and about the same again for the other car. (wheels, tyres, nuts, locking nuts, all balanced and ready to put on the car as a package deal). I can PM you the name of the company, if you or anyone else is interested.

[Custom24]

I do concur that a better (more cost-effective and practical) choice for many people (including me) would be good All Season tyre.

[Gareth]

I do concur that a better (more cost-effective and practical) choice for many people (including me) would be good All Season tyre.

There is an interesting article on the TyreReviews website which discusses the relative performance of summer, winter and all seasons tyres. It's particularly illuminating how a good all season tyre isn't far behind the performance of the summer tyre in summer conditions or the performance of the winter tyre in winter conditions.

Custom24 has recently driven an Italian car fitted with the all season tyre mentioned in the article ...