Police cut my wife up

[martine]

No, not a hideous murder scene but in the driving sense.

At the weekend my wife was driving around a large traffic-light-controlled roundabout (I know they don't exist officially but you know what I mean) in the correct lane and stopped at traffic lights half way round with a police car to her left. They both pulled away gently and then, with the police car only slightly ahead, it indicated and immediately moved into my wife's lane, causing her to brake. No blues and twos and no acknowledgement. I suspect she may well have been in their blindspot.

So who would have dared to sound their horn in such an instance?

[GJD]

Traffic plod or ordinary plod?

Sounds like it might have all been a bit close and quick to get off a blast (or even toot) of the horn before the potential danger had already turned into real danger. I'd have just rammed them...

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Anybody who uses Junction 16 of the M4 at rush hour will be very familiar with, and possibly regularly irritated by, this behaviour. Because of the particular construction of this junction, most of the traffic coming from Swindon is concentrated in the right hand lane on approach, leading to a queue, which is systematically queue-jumped by drivers in the middle lane, timing their dives to the right with a greater or lesser degree of skill and / or rudeness. At each set of traffic lights a mini grand prix ensues, as drivers in the wrong lane try to cut in, and drivers in the correct one try to prevent them. Much horn tooting and fist shaking takes place, and the odd bump as well, leading to further disruption and queueing. Unfortunately it's just a badly designed bit of road. Lord knows if it will ever be redesigned. Apparently the Swindon traffic engineers can do nothing about it because it belongs to the HA. In the meantime, one is left with the choice of queueing for lengthy periods, or joining the cutters-in, and trying to do it in such a fashion as not to upset too many queuers.

Sharp observation, anticipation and quick reactions are essential.

[martine]

Traffic plod or ordinary plod?

I asked her this and she didn't know.

I'd have just rammed them...

[7db]

The three-digit aircode on the back of the vehicle is a useful identifier should you wish to discuss their driving standards with someone.

In the driving instance, same as anyone else:- seek cooperation and then seek safety. Horn if there's time and it will help, otherwise you're braking and looking for space offside.

[exportmanuk]

I always feel if you have time to use your horn you have time to take corrective action without a problem.

Its when you don't have time to use the horn that things have got a bit hairy, your too busy avoiding something nasty to waste precious time to sound a toot.

But also I think that if your job is to uphold/enforce the law you should be setting an example and the standard of driving ( and the standard of the vehicle often) demonstrated by ordinary PC plod is appalling, but equally I know that in Manchester the amount of training they undertake before being allowed to drive a police vehicle is pitiful, so we should not be surprised.

[7db]

If you plan earlier you'll find that you have time to use the horn (seek cooperation) and still have time to see if the other driver reacts and seek safety if he doesn't. I agree I wouldn't compromise my ability to seek safety, but worth seeing if you can make it safer before diving for cover.

[ScoobyChris]

Agree with Mr DB. I was quite taken aback when a co-driver suggested to me that using the horn had a place in the System as it's not something that I'd ever considered before and it makes a lot of sense. I believe it was in Roadcraft of old but is missing from later editions?

Chris

[vonhosen]

Agree with Mr DB. I was quite taken aback when a co-driver suggested to me that using the horn had a place in the System as it's not something that I'd ever considered before and it makes a lot of sense. I believe it was in Roadcraft of old but is missing from later editions?

Chris

It's not missing, it's in the information phase rather than being 'feature 5'.

[Horse]

So who would have dared to sound their horn in such an instance?

Going to work one day, I happened to come alongside a traffic car in town, and was pleased to see a friend I needed to talk to was passenger.

TOOT!

"You, stop over there!" pointing ahead.

Driver was confused - not used to it being done that way around

[Standard Dave]

Were there any cars or people in front of them could they have been changing lane to investigate some sort of incident or perform a full circle of the roundabout.

Not every job thats urgent requires blue lights and sirens, I don't see a distinction between "traffic" police and any one else just because an officer has a big car doesn't mean they hold any higher driving qualification that other police officers.

As for identifying a police vehicle many forces no longer have air identifyers or call signs on the vehicles our vehicle reg numbers are all almost identical so it's very hard to trace an individual vehicle for such a minor incident.

[ExadiNigel]

Anybody who uses Junction 16 of the M4 at rush hour will be very familiar with, and possibly regularly irritated by, this behaviour. Because of the particular construction of this junction, most of the traffic coming from Swindon is concentrated in the right hand lane on approach, leading to a queue, which is systematically queue-jumped by drivers in the middle lane, timing their dives to the right with a greater or lesser degree of skill and / or rudeness. At each set of traffic lights a mini grand prix ensues, as drivers in the wrong lane try to cut in, and drivers in the correct one try to prevent them. Much horn tooting and fist shaking takes place, and the odd bump as well, leading to further disruption and queueing. Unfortunately it's just a badly designed bit of road. Lord knows if it will ever be redesigned. Apparently the Swindon traffic engineers can do nothing about it because it belongs to the HA. In the meantime, one is left with the choice of queueing for lengthy periods, or joining the cutters-in, and trying to do it in such a fashion as not to upset too many queuers.

Sharp observation, anticipation and quick reactions are essential.

The frustrating thing is, most of that roundabout is clearly marked on the road and with signs so it's down to drivers being impatient and not planning ahead. Where it is poorly marked is heading from Wroughton/Basset to go East on the M4.

[crr003]

Anybody who uses Junction 16 of the M4 at rush hour will be very familiar with, and possibly regularly irritated by, this behaviour. Because of the particular construction of this junction, most of the traffic coming from Swindon is concentrated in the right hand lane on approach, leading to a queue, which is systematically queue-jumped by drivers in the middle lane, timing their dives to the right with a greater or lesser degree of skill and / or rudeness. At each set of traffic lights a mini grand prix ensues, as drivers in the wrong lane try to cut in, and drivers in the correct one try to prevent them. Much horn tooting and fist shaking takes place, and the odd bump as well, leading to further disruption and queueing. Unfortunately it's just a badly designed bit of road. Lord knows if it will ever be redesigned. Apparently the Swindon traffic engineers can do nothing about it because it belongs to the HA. In the meantime, one is left with the choice of queueing for lengthy periods, or joining the cutters-in, and trying to do it in such a fashion as not to upset too many queuers.

Sharp observation, anticipation and quick reactions are essential.

"Apparently the Swindon traffic engineers can do nothing about it because it belongs to the HA."

Apparently not!..........................I asked the ever helpful HA and this is the reply:

"With regards to Junction 16, our responsibility starts or ends at the top of the respective entry or exit slip roads, meaning the circulatory section of the roundabout and adjoining roads fall under the jurisdiction of the relevant Local Highway Authority. In this instance, the A3102 to the north of the M4 is under the remit of Swindon Borough Council. The circulatory section of the roundabout and the A3102 to the south of the M4 is owned and maintained by Wiltshire Council.

For your convenience, I have provided the contact details for the Authorities below:

Swindon Borough Council

Tel: 01793 445500

Email: customerservices@swindon.gov.uk

Wiltshire Council

Tel: 01225 777234

Email: Clarence@wiltshire.gov.uk "

[Gareth]

Anybody who uses Junction 16 of the M4 at rush hour will be very familiar with, and possibly regularly irritated by, this behaviour. Because of the particular construction of this junction, most of the traffic coming from Swindon is concentrated in the right hand lane on approach, leading to a queue, which is systematically queue-jumped by drivers in the middle lane, timing their dives to the right with a greater or lesser degree of skill and / or rudeness.

Having spent too much time looking at the Satellite view on Google Maps, I reckon there's nothing wrong with the roundabout on the junction. The problems are all on the approach to the roundabout, where the two left most lanes are reserved for the first two exits off the roundabout, they being the M4 eastbound and then the B4005. If the bulk of the traffic is always for the A3102 into Wootton Bassett or the M4 westbound then Swindon Borough Council might consider changing the markings to the left most lane alone is signed for the B4 eastbound and the B4005. The problem will be that this will require agreement from Wiltshire Council to change the lane arrangement on that part of the roundabout, since without a co-ordinated change by both authorities, it will be impossible to fix this in a sane fashion.

[crr003]

Strange, the Traffic Signal maintenance falls under HA AREA 2 contract which is operated by InterRoute for the HA. Swindon have no responsibility for the Signals or their operation.

That is strange! Does Area 2 have responsibility for the paint too? Maybe there is some deal between the LAs and HA that HA will provide/maintain the lights?