Speed Limits

[Octy_Ross]

Anyone want to give a good reason for it to be that low?

Possibly to allay the fears of locals?

I was struck by what a potentially useful report that was - the British public are, it seems, still capable of providing very sensible input when someone takes the trouble to ask them. I wonder how much of it was actually incorporated in the eventual development plans - it's now over 4 years since it was published.

Are fears reasons?

[PeterE]

Anyone want to give a good reason for it to be that low?

Possibly to allay the fears of locals?

If we start giving roads 30 limits because there are houses nearby, even if there are no direct property frontages, then we might as well all give up and go home

I can think of plenty of such roads (for example the Milton Keynes main grid roads) that are NSL.

[michael769]

on the left it goes, verge, fence, field (sometimes with horses!).

What is the building that can be seen through the trees on the left?

[Octy_Ross]

on the left it goes, verge, fence, field (sometimes with horses!).

What is the building that can be seen through the trees on the left?

About 300ish meters from the road (and beyond the fields) there are some houses, but if they constitute a 'good reason' to reduce speed limits we may as well sell our cars and get back on our horses

[michael769]

About 300ish meters from the road (and beyond the fields) there are some houses, but if they constitute a 'good reason' to reduce speed limits we may as well sell our cars and get back on our horses

I am not saying that means it automatically requires a lower limit. But it does raise the possibility that there are desire lines linking the settlements and that means we have to be mindful of the impact our activities have on those travelling along the desire lines - particularly vulnerable users who may feel cut off from the other side of the road. The road is a shared place and we as drivers have no god given right to dominate at the cost of all others.

There is clearly a balance that needs to be set between the needs of all users - what that balance is can only be determined by knowledge of the local situation. Beyond putting forwards some other factors to consider I cannot claim to have an answer to the examples put forwards here. Unfortunately drivers all too often only consider their own safety and needs while ignoring the impact they may be having on communities and residents.

Problem at the moment is that Local Councils seem to be setting limits based on personal prejudices or to shut up a minority of very vocal fools rather than on an objective and rational analysis of the evidence available, which leaves us a drivers unable to determine if a limit is indeed justified by something that is not readily apparent to our narrow horizons, or another irrational and unjustified infringement of our freedoms. With the latter case becoming all the more common the result is that, I fear our roads are being made less safe.

The problem the "Motoring lobby" has at the moment is that the more vocal elements tend to take a very blinkered view about speed, refusing to accept that there are other valid reasons beyond what is seen out a drivers windows for setting speed limits, and as a result the arguments they often put forwards against speed cuts quite effectively play into the hands of those who have the same mentality as BRAKE. In essence they can be viewed as simply putting forwards knee jerk opposition to any reduction - which can only serve to weaken the cause.

[Ralge]

What makes a speed limit "ridiculously low", out of interest?

A speed limit that is significantly lower than the speed at which you, as an advanced driver, would choose to drive if the road had no speed limit apart from NSL - the link in the previous post being a good example.

Having just joined this Forum I hesitate from causing a stir so quickly but the idea that speed limits are ridiculously low on occasions is one that "ordinary" drivers on "ordinary" forums voice. This is also normally bolted to the spoon-fed, tabloid assertions of "war on motorist" etc etc. Many "ordinary" drivers claim that they judge what is a safe speed, after all, they drive to the conditions (despite the fact that they rarely check tyre pressures or tread AND can't tell you what the tread does ... and when it stops doing it effectively)
So as an Advanced Driver (who hopefully knows better ... who knows everything on here?), am I allowed to make my own rules?
Does the level of hazard vary hourly, daily, weekly etc.
Does the pedestrian planning to cross the road randomly know I am AD?
What is an AD, anyway? Are there differences between IAM, RoSPA in standards and the re-testing of them?
Do we have "off days"?
Are we happy that our "we can drive down here faster than the limit right now 'cos we are AD's" might get copied by a less enlightened driver?
Don't get me wrong, I am no "speed kills" merchant, a speed limit is no guarantor of safe outcomes but, I guess, I am more supportive of Councils' attempts to cut KSI's than most because speed limit reduction is by no means the only tool in their box however much it may seem to be the case.

[jont]

Having just joined this Forum I hesitate from causing a stir so quickly but the idea that speed limits are ridiculously low on occasions is one that "ordinary" drivers on "ordinary" forums voice. This is also normally bolted to the spoon-fed, tabloid assertions of "war on motorist" etc etc. Many "ordinary" drivers claim that they judge what is a safe speed, after all, they drive to the conditions (despite the fact that they rarely check tyre pressures or tread AND can't tell you what the tread does ... and when it stops doing it effectively)
So as an Advanced Driver (who hopefully knows better ... who knows everything on here?), am I allowed to make my own rules?
Does the level of hazard vary hourly, daily, weekly etc.
Does the pedestrian planning to cross the road randomly know I am AD?
What is an AD, anyway? Are there differences between IAM, RoSPA in standards and the re-testing of them?
Do we have "off days"?
Are we happy that our "we can drive down here faster than the limit right now 'cos we are AD's" might get copied by a less enlightened driver?
Don't get me wrong, I am no "speed kills" merchant, a speed limit is no guarantor of safe outcomes but, I guess, I am more supportive of Councils' attempts to cut KSI's than most because speed limit reduction is by no means the only tool in their box however much it may seem to be the case.

If "ordinary" drivers think limits are inappropriately low, do you think you're more likely to change their behaviour by imposing even lower limits (and then fining them when they break them), or by educating them as to why their choice of speed might be wrong?

Do you think an increasing number of ever lower limits gives the (false) impression that so long as you comply with the speed limit you are driving safely?

Do you think you would be unable to drive safely without the crutch of a speedo and external stimulus of speed limits?

[PeterE]

So as an Advanced Driver (who hopefully knows better ... who knows everything on here?), am I allowed to make my own rules?

Do you not effectively make your own rules when driving along NSL roads?

Would you be doing 60 here, for example?

[10xfiles13]

Hi Phil,

You mentioned in your post, if save to do so, hyperthetically speaking, would any one diverge from a 30 mph speed limit. As we all know on this site, speed banners are put up for a reason, so if you enter a 30 zone, its usually congested, and built up with cars, fair few side-roads( closed ones at that ), houses, kids playing. In many area's where I live, the majority of places are 30, and I sometimes even approach 25.

In my opinion, if its 30, stick to it ( or less )!!.

Regards... Steve

[PeterE]

You mentioned in your post, if save to do so, hyperthetically speaking, would any one diverge from a 30 mph speed limit. As we all know on this site, speed banners are put up for a reason, so if you enter a 30 zone, its usually congested, and built up with cars, fair few side-roads( closed ones at that ), houses, kids playing. In many area's where I live, the majority of places are 30, and I sometimes even approach 25.

In my opinion, if its 30, stick to it ( or less )!!.

Plenty of examples have been given on this thread and others of 30 limits on well-aligned roads with little or no development that don't remotely conform to the scenario you describe. While obviously the law is the law, it is a little naive to believe that every 30 limit is reasonable.

Here's another example - and, no, it doesn't suddenly turn into a built-up village street just round the bend either.

[martine]

Would you be doing 60 here, for example?

Wow - where's that?

[PeterE]

Wow - where's that?

Ewood Bridge, Rossendale, Lancashire. The NSL repeater is a bit faded on StreetView and I believe it has now been reduced to 40.

Another classic not too far away was this one on the A6 in Over Hulton:



Again now reduced to 40.

But the point is that just because a sign says the limit is 60, you don't necessarily drive at 60, so you are making your own judgement as to an appropriate speed based on the prevailing conditions.

If all the speed limit signs were removed overnight, I doubt whether many people on here would drive dangerously, but I'm sure most would exceed some of the former limits, often by a wide margin.

[martine]

But the point is that just because a sign says the limit is 60, you don't necessarily drive at 60, so you are making your own judgement as to an appropriate speed based on the prevailing conditions.

Quite agree.

[MGF]

If people made appropriate decisions there wouldn't be many accidents.

[jont]

If people made appropriate decisions there wouldn't be many accidents.

But is the problem the majority of people for whom stricter legislation might work or a very small minority who will DLAC regardless of what the law says?
/fed up of the endless growth of legislation that has a bigger effect on the citizen who tries to be law abiding than those who are probably already outside existing laws.