If all speed limits were abolished tomorrow...

[Dispossessed]

Then how would your driving change?

Obviously it would of course be dependent on the weather conditions, the nature of the road, time of day/year etc, visibility etc, but would you be likely to exceed the present limit on certain roads by a sizable amount?

Assuming you weren't in a rush, but were seeking to safely make progress.

I'm guessing the Isle of Man would be an interesting study - would your average car driver in a Ford Focus or other typical family car exceed 60 by a considerable amount given the de-restricted nature of the roads?

[Gareth]

would you be likely to exceed the present limit on certain roads by a sizable amount?

Yes, mostly on rural roads.

I'm thinking of some roads that were NSL and for which speeds of 70-80 in places wouldn't have been unreasonable, but which now have a lower limit, (often 50 mph but sometimes 40 mph). I'm also thinking of buffer zones outside urban areas.

[jcochrane]

I would expect I would do the following speeds. On rural roads a typical upper end range might be between 40-70mph. On longer or very long clear straights this might rise to 80-90mph. 100/100+ would be fairly rare given the nature and density of traffic now and in the near future but would not be ruled out where it is safe.

So for much of the time on rural roads there would only be a relatively slight increase over the existing 60mph limit.

NB All the above would be clock speeds so in my car true speed would be 2-3mph less. Which means much of the time top speed might only be a true 67/68mph.
My present car is a 1.6 diesel but even if driving a more powerful car such as 911s these speeds would not increase as much as would at first be thought as speed primarily must be limited at all times by limit point, hazards and nature/condition of the roads.

Edited to add...In the present 30s and 20s the same speed.

[jameslb101]

-NSL B-roads - not much change
-NSL A-roads - a bit quicker sometimes, perhaps up to 80-90mph
-Rural "new" 40s/50s - at NSL pace
-Urban 30s - not much change, but might go over 30 on a rare occasion. Quicker through 20s, but still under 30mph
-Motorway/DC - not much change. If I had a more economical and/or refined car, I imagine I'd cruise at c.100mph in light traffic - any more and the speed differentials get a bit uncomfortable (assuming the majority of drivers are still doing 70-80ish, which I think they still would).

Nice idea, although sadly I think the majority of drivers lack the concentration and analytical skills to constantly assess an appropriate speed, and would end up doing 45 on any non DC/motorway - rural or otherwise. A bit like they do now come to think of it.

[Hiijinx]

Interesting idea, I would stick to the residential limits but push the straight NSL roads which are free from driveways, junctions etc.

I am still amazed that neither the Highway Code or DSA learning to drive material, mentions anything about how to judge what speed is correct, only "don't drive faster than conditions of the road", or "don't enter bends too quickly".

Obviously we know all about the limit point but does mr average on the road? New drivers and old alike, have never been taught this fantasticly simple technique and so are under the belief that the speed limit has somehow been meticulously scientifcally engineered by road safety experts with PhDs to be the correct speed no matter what.

Talking about this to a rospa gold / adi, I questioned if she taught the limit point to her students but was amazed to hear her say that she was not allowed to as it didn't follow the DSA's cirriculum.

Any ADI's here been told similar?

[martine]

Talking about this to a rospa gold / adi, I questioned if she taught the limit point to her students but was amazed to hear her say that she was not allowed to as it didn't follow the DSA's cirriculum.

Any ADI's here been told similar?

What? The is nothing I am aware of to suggest the DSA discourage it...as far as I know it's just not mentioned officially at all. ADI's don't follow a precise, fixed ciriculum...at least I don't - so it's not a question of 'not being allowed'.

I start the process when I'm with a learner (usually more experienced learners) on rural roads...I don't get too dogmatic about it but get them to look for the limit point and think about how it's changing and can they stop in that distance. It's flipping hard work to get them to accelerate when it disappears into the distance.

[Kimosabe]

Oh for the days before NSLs. Things were so much simpler then. Driving along derestricted roads at 50-60mph without so much as a drag coefficient to come between driver and thin plastic steering wheel. When gentlemen could casually smoke a pipe while driving, without encountering a lady driver who didn't know her social engagements and who hadn't already fixed her makeup before leaving the house, coming the other way. It was always misty back then.

I think the notion of speed limits is an odd one. I think this because the argument regarding when they were decided and the design of modern cars and modern attitudes has not yet been resolved. The thought that everyone would go absolutely zombie-mental if there were no limits is a straw man placed upon us by them upstairs. I wouldn't personally drive much faster than I already do, except on rare occasions when there really is nothing else on a motorway and then i'd be almost flat out +/- 10%.

"The 30 mph speed limit in built-up areas was introduced in 1930 in response to high casualty levels.[9] The 70 mph limit on previously unrestricted roads was introduced in 1965 following a number of serious motorway accidents in fog earlier the same year." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed ... ed_Kingdom

[Dispossessed]

Some interesting replies here. I guess personally I would rarely exceed 75-80mph, much like at the present actually, though this would be more limited by fuel costs rather than anything else. I guess the biggest differences for me would be on those roads that are 40 or 50 but which used to be NSL.

I actually don't think that speeds would really change that much to be honest - I'm guessing that those who would drive at inappropriate speeds for the conditions/roads currently do so already.

I found some speed measurements for the Isle of Man - they seem to correspond with what you were saying James - on roads with 30 and 40 mph limits the 85% percentile was around 36 and 50mph respectively, but on roads with no limit, the 85% percentile was still below UK "NSL" speeds in those roads surveyed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_ ... _Man#Roads

[JamesAllport]

My guess is that my speed would be unchanged in what are currently 20s and 30s. On NSL "white sign" A&B roads my peak speeds would rise somewhat, but probably still in two, rather than three figures. On the motorway I guess I would choose to cruise at around the 85mph. On the right conditions in the right car, I would happily carry 100+mph on the motorway, but traffic densities and the need to keep an appropriate bubble of space around the car mean that opportunities to do that undramatically in thr southern half of the UK would be limited.

James

[Russ_H]

I am still amazed that neither the Highway Code or DSA learning to drive material, mentions anything about how to judge what speed is correct, only "don't drive faster than conditions of the road", or "don't enter bends too quickly".

My copy of Driving - The Essential Skills has several pages about approaching and negotiating bends. It advocates a position well to the left when approaching a right-hander; however, for a left-hander, it suggests a more conservative central position. Whilst it does not use the phrase limit point, it does say, and I quote, "Always drive so that you can stop safely within the limit of your vision. Take extra care where your view is restricted".

Talking about this to a rospa gold / adi, I questioned if she taught the limit point to her students but was amazed to hear her say that she was not allowed to as it didn't follow the DSA's cirriculum.


Any ADI's here been told similar?

It is not a matter of not being allowed. An ADI can teach anything he or she thinks appropriate.

[Ancient]

The effect on my driving would be that I wold spend less time watching the speedometer to check I don't exceed an inappropriately low limit; more time therefore watching the road. Whether this would increase my absolute speed more than marginally - I don't know (having never driven on unregulated roads). There are plenty of roads where I go nowhere near the limit (and don't need to clock-watch) at the moment, but I would (as others have said) probably speed up somewhat on open country roads and the empty parts of motorways.

[jameslb101]

Now I've had some time to reply properly I think I'll admit that I find the whole idea of speed as a quantifiable construct somewhat of a distraction. Managing speed is about managing risk, and thus, the two should be inversely proportional - simple as that. Something as facile as a number of stick shouldn't cloud the decision making process of the driver.

If you picture a graph of speed vs distance, an absolute speed limit merely aims to cap the peaks of the trace. On a stretch of road there may be a straight where it's safe to pull three figures, followed by a bend where the limit point dictates a maximum speed of 25mph. It's the corner which people will take at 35mph (because it's under the limit, init) and fall off the road, but the straight where you'll find the speed camera. I can't be the only one who sees the irony of this...

[Kimosabe]

Lets not overlook 'the Yaris effect' on all NSLs.

The Yaris Effect:

All Yaris drivers know that 40mph is an absolute speed which is fast enough to kill others because its over 30mph and slow enough to personally survive most crashes, as its under the extremely deadly 71mph, which as all Yaris drivers also know causes total a loss of bodily function, especially when in lane 2 of any motorway. (Source: Kimopedia)

[PeterE]

All Yaris drivers know that 40mph is an absolute speed which is fast enough to kill others because its over 30mph and slow enough to personally survive most crashes, as its under the extremely deadly 71mph, which as all Yaris drivers also know causes total a loss of bodily function, especially when in lane 2 of any motorway. (Source: Kimopedia)

I doubt whether Yaris (or Micra) drivers are quite so knowledgeable and calculating.

But 40 mph is a comfortable, ambling, cruising speed in most modern cars, hence the well-known phenomenon of the "40 mph everywhere driver". In the absence of any posted speed limits, I suspect we would see less speed variation between urban and rural areas.

On the other hand, where you get a speed limit sign with 30 mph on one side, and NSL on the other, is 30 mph always the maximum safe speed on one side, and 60 entirely reasonable the other side? Speed limits are always a bit of a broad brush.

[jcochrane]

Now I've had some time to reply properly I think I'll admit that I find the whole idea of speed as a quantifiable construct somewhat of a distraction. Managing speed is about managing risk, and thus, the two should be inversely proportional - simple as that. Something as facile as a number of stick shouldn't cloud the decision making process of the driver.

If you picture a graph of speed vs distance, an absolute speed limit merely aims to cap the peaks of the trace. On a stretch of road there may be a straight where it's safe to pull three figures, followed by a bend where the limit point dictates a maximum speed of 25mph. It's the corner which people will take at 35mph (because it's under the limit, init) and fall off the road, but the straight where you'll find the speed camera. I can't be the only one who sees the irony of this...

Perhaps even more ironic aren't they called "safety cameras".