Prestige Car Hire

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Postby MikeG » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:07 am


Nah, Atoms have mud-guards. :lol:

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Postby Gareth » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:58 am


Darren wrote:Gareth, you gonna stand for that? :-)

Knowing what StressedDave drives, I would ordinarily mention something about hairdressers. Thing is though, they're just brilliant cars to drive. Almost as good feel and balance as an Alfa 75TS and yet so similar that a person with normal articulation could jump from one to the other and immediately feel completely at home ... :wink:
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...
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Postby James » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:04 am


vonhosen wrote:Getting more & more difficult with some modern cars. A lot of "Safety" systems aren't fully disabled by switching them off at the button.


Thats right, for example on the Volvo S60R you can never actually disable the advanced 4 wheel traction control system they use. It has 3 modes from Comfort to Advanced, or something like that. In the Vauxhall Astra VXR it is, I think, an expensive "factory option" to have a button to disengage the traction control. And I think in the Ford Focus ST, despite depressing the ESP button to turn off traction, it is still working at 25% in the background. Hence why I love cars like the afore mentioned VX220 (has to be the turbo though) and the Noble.

Another thing. Automatic's. (Or Tiptronic's). Hate them. For an uninspiring drive from A to B, fine, I would put up with it. For a fun drive on a Sunday, I would do it but feel disadvantaged. On a track? I wouldn't bother getting in the car...

(When I speak of automatic I exclude Paddle-Shift, although I don't like these either).
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Postby rlmr » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:29 am


PD... know you do not really want a "Classic", but a 911 is a 911...
Caledonian Classics
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Also have a look at...
Bespokes
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I've heard they are good... but do not know any age or financial conditions :?

Hope you manage to find what you are looking for. If you do, head North :D

regards

Rennie
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Postby crr003 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:47 am


Police_Driver wrote:Hence why I love cars like the afore mentioned VX220 (has to be the turbo though)

The Normally/Naturally Aspirated boys say theirs is better balanced as the tubby is heavier at the back end. On twisty bits there's not much between them, but on a straight bit the turbo's better performance will leave a lot of things costing much more behind. 8)
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Postby James » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:51 am


Thats exactly why I like it. Im my opinion, straight line speed wins over handling. The more power the better, you can learn to harness the power as you learn the character of the car. This usually means more skilled driving and greater fun whilst doing it. This is, IMHO, is unlike cars like the Elise 1.8. Even the 111S. How boring. Power to weight may be great but it is just like an easy to drive go-cart. The dynamics of the car give it the edge rather than the driver.
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Postby rlmr » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:04 am


Police_Driver wrote:In my opinion, straight line speed wins over handling.


:shock: Power is useful / fun and it's nice to have some in reserve, but without handling it cannot be used :shock:

Perhaps its just that I am blessed with nice (twisty) roads in my part of the world :wink: .

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Postby Gareth » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:02 am


rlmr wrote:Power is useful / fun and it's nice to have some in reserve, but without handling it cannot be used

Perhaps its just that I am blessed with nice (twisty) roads in my part of the world

I agree - having lots of power is more or less pointless since, after all, anybody can drive fast, and it ends up being the quickest way to loose a driving license :evil:

The skill and fun is in the cornering and the straight sections between them just need to be endured ... 8)
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Postby BillZZR600 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:09 am


rlmr wrote:


Perhaps its just that I am blessed with nice (twisty) roads in my part of the world :wink: .

Rennie


Rennie,
Are you sure that when you left "The Job", you didn't take up a part time position with "Visit Scotland" :lol:
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Postby James » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:16 am


Yes but if a car's handling characterstics are unique, or tricky, or not good compared to other car's, then they will be more of a challenge. I don't agree that without handling you can't use power. Rather, without handling it is down to you as the driver to judge the road surface, handling characteristics and personality of the vehicle, in order to maximise it's progress in the drive.

The Astra VXR is criticised as having too much power to the front wheels making it difficult to control. I just found that rather than flooring the accelerator you had to be extra gentle and extra precise in order to deliver the exact amount of power required for any bit of road. That skill then extends to using the distance to anticipate what is coming up, and you negotiating the car control's in order to prepare the car and drive it through whatever hazards are approaching. Sound use of this long observation and preparation will leave you a distance of 'x' between hazards, which you can use full acceleration power and then hard braking within, until you reach the next hazard. Different car's will react differently at certain limit's (cornering, acceleration, braking). It is down to the driver to safely identify these limits, build them into a muscle memory and then take the car by the scruff of the neck, confidently controlling it.

This is what is meant by a "driver's car". It is a car that needs to be driven, not that handles so well that the driver has less work to do in controlling it.
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Postby TripleS » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:33 am


rlmr wrote:
Police_Driver wrote:I am a modern man,and classics, as much as I respect their place in modern day motoring heritage, do nothing for me. As for driving without interference I would find the lack of performance of classic car's (in most, but not all cases ,I know) an interference to my driving!


An interesting post...

I would have thought a chap with your pedigree would prefer the challenge of a real car (without: traction control, power assisted steering, paddle-shift gears, ABS, computer controlled suspension etc. etc.) :wink: .
Rennie :wink:


Rennie - perhaps what you mean is these modern youngsters need feather bedding all the time. A 3.8 Mark 2 Jaguar, for example, would surely be too much like hard work.

...just a thought!!

I'll have to leave the smilies to your imagination. We have a new system here and I can't get them to appear in the right places yet.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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Postby rlmr » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:33 am


Hi PD,

Maybe things are getting lost in translation between English and Scots :wink: . But you appear to contradict yourself.

If a car does not handle, then that means it does not handle, irrespective of what input the driver has. You mention the Astra VXR... that car does handle so long as the driver does not exceed the limits of the suspension set up by over cooking things with the right foot. In fact to mis-quote from an earlier post, all modern cars handle.

When you have driven a 3 litre Healey with duff shocks and worn springs then you can talk about cars that are inherrently difficult to handle :wink: . If you had your powerful car and it did not handle then you certainly would not be able to lay that power down on the road. Perhaps we are getting confused over each other's use of the word handling?

I certainly do not mean some namby pamby computer controlled car, I am talking about chassis and suspension design... something like a Super 7. A very good handling car, but one which requires to be driven and driven my a good driver to realise the car's full potential.

Personally, if I lived in your part of the UK I would Click Here and start smiling.

regards,

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Postby rlmr » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:36 am


Hi Dave,
TripleS wrote:Rennie - perhaps what you mean is these modern youngsters need feather bedding all the time. A 3.8 Mark 2 Jaguar, for example, would surely be too much like hard work.

...just a thought!!


Looks like we are both on the same wavelength :wink: .

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Postby TripleS » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:50 am


rlmr wrote:Hi Dave,
TripleS wrote:Rennie - perhaps what you mean is these modern youngsters need feather bedding all the time. A 3.8 Mark 2 Jaguar, for example, would surely be too much like hard work.

...just a thought!!


Looks like we are both on the same wavelength :wink: .

Rennie


Hiya Rennie - yes I think we're of similar mind here.

The 3.8 Jaguar that I owned between 1968 and 1999 was a bit of a brute by modern standards. I enjoyed it immensely but it did feel like hard work and I never felt able to exploit it fully. Never mind though, I had some good times in it and kept out of trouble, so I count that as a fair result.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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Postby rlmr » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:03 pm


TripleS wrote:The 3.8 Jaguar that I owned between 1968 and 1999 was a bit of a brute by modern standards. I enjoyed it immensely but it did feel like hard work and I never felt able to exploit it fully. Never mind though, I had some good times in it and kept out of trouble, so I count that as a fair result.


I have kept with this thought on 2-wheels as well. I gave my son my older K100RS motorcycle when he passed his test and he has done really well on it. Now he can drive it to a high standard I will be happier if he ever gets something more modern which has ultra modern suspension and brakes etc. He knows about cornering lines, he can apply the system well. Better to get these things licked on a machine which does not lead you into temptation (though he still managed close on 140 mph when we took the bikes through Germany to Austria :) ).

Nowadays the bikes (and cars) are so good you do not have to drive them properly and you will still get round the bends. Sadly this means there can be a skill deficiency which could manifest itself at a most inopportune moment.

The Jaguar sound good fun and I bet you feel the better from it, knowing that you have to be able to drive to get anything from it.

regards

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