Looking, at light controlled pedestrian crossings.

[fungus]

This evenings local news contained an article about Portsmouth Councils decision to reduce the number of school crossing patrols.The reporter was interviewing a mother outside a school on one of the major roads into the city. She was standing by a Puffin Crossing, and when asked by the reporter what she thought of the decision to not replace the crossing patrol, she said, that although there was a light controlled crossing, it was dangerous, as when the lights change to red cars don't always stop. Isn't the problem that children are not taught to look, but press the button, and when the green man shows cross the road? rather like many motorists do at traffic lights.

[DanFraser]

This evenings local news contained an article about Portsmouth Councils decision to reduce the number of school crossing patrols.The reporter was interviewing a mother outside a school on one of the major roads into the city. She was standing by a Puffin Crossing, and when asked by the reporter what she thought of the decision to not replace the crossing patrol, she said, that although there was a light controlled crossing, it was dangerous, as when the lights change to red cars don't always stop. Isn't the problem that children are not taught to look, but press the button, and when the green man shows cross the road? rather like many motorists do at traffic lights.

I've just started my three year old girl on the looking before pressing the button.

Don't know why though, they're just pacifier buttons unless it's a simple road crossing.

[PeterE]

Don't know why though, they're just pacifier buttons unless it's a simple road crossing.

Some are, but for example there is one at a signalised crossroads near me that doesn't provide the pedestrian phase unless you press the button.

I sometimes wonder if I am setting a bad example to the kiddies if I read the junction and cross on the red man - there is one movement which generates virtually zero left-turning traffic so you can safely cross that arm.

[TripleS]

Don't know why though, they're just pacifier buttons unless it's a simple road crossing.

Some are, but for example there is one at a signalised crossroads near me that doesn't provide the pedestrian phase unless you press the button.

I sometimes wonder if I am setting a bad example to the kiddies if I read the junction and cross on the red man - there is one movement which generates virtually zero left-turning traffic so you can safely cross that arm.

With respect, Peter, I think that might be considered to be a bad example. Until the youngsters reach the stage where they can make safe judgements of their own, it could lead them to by-pass the system at other times, possibly exposing them to dangers that would not otherwise arise.

As for the need for a pedestrian to press the button to activate the pedestrian phase, that's how it should be, in my view. In Scarborough we have numerous junctions with traffic lights, all including arrangements for pedestrians to cross the road, and I quite often see all the traffic streams held up for the duration of a pedestrian phase, even when there are no pedestrians in the vicinity. This is a nonsense system.

[exportmanuk]

In Manchester in the months before they tried to introduce the congestion charge they increased the pedestrian crossing time and on some lights to complete when there is no one waiting. Not sat and timed it, but that set appears to give the same time for cars and for pedestrians.

[PeterE]

I sometimes wonder if I am setting a bad example to the kiddies if I read the junction and cross on the red man - there is one movement which generates virtually zero left-turning traffic so you can safely cross that arm.

With respect, Peter, I think that might be considered to be a bad example. Until the youngsters reach the stage where they can make safe judgements of their own, it could lead them to by-pass the system at other times, possibly exposing them to dangers that would not otherwise arise.

Well yes, I am aware of that, so I consciously avoid doing it when there are young children also looking to cross. The sort of thing that the "advanced driving" mindset would lead you to consider

As an aside, I often use this Puffin crossing in Heaton Mersey which is so insensitive to pedestrian demand that, despite being on a busy road, I can normally find a safe gap to cross before the lights change. And then, of course, they do

[fungus]

When my wife and I were in Germany a couple of years ago, we came across a cross roads in Cologne which were completely free of traffic. We just looked, it was clear, so we crossed. This was with the pedestrian light on red. We then noticed that people were looking at us as if we had done something wrong. When we mentioned it to the tour courier, she was aghast. "You will be arrested if the police catch you doing that, it's against the law over here.

[fungus]

IIRC the problem with young children is that they can not detect vehicle movement under about 22mph, adults will detect movement at about 7mph.

What gets me is when adults or older children walk up to the crossing, press the button, THEN look. But do pedestrians put too much faith in light controlled crossings? I have heard that Zebra crossings are actually safer, because pedestrians actually look to see if traffic has stopped.

[WhoseGeneration]

Puffin crossings are rubbish.
I have to look at a signal on a pole alongside me, rather than have lifted vision taking in the traffic from all directions.

[PeterE]

Puffin crossings are rubbish.
I have to look at a signal on a pole alongside me, rather than have lifted vision taking in the traffic from all directions.

63 pages of discussion on the subject here

[WhoseGeneration]

Puffin crossings are rubbish.
I have to look at a signal on a pole alongside me, rather than have lifted vision taking in the traffic from all directions.

63 pages of discussion on the subject here

Ta, yet another waste of taxpayers' money.
Which, no doubt, taxpayers' funded group of idiots came up with this design?

Eta, I'm old and so brought up to be intelligent when a pedestrian and wanting to cross a road.

[Ancient]

This evenings local news contained an article about Portsmouth Councils decision to reduce the number of school crossing patrols.The reporter was interviewing a mother outside a school on one of the major roads into the city. She was standing by a Puffin Crossing, and when asked by the reporter what she thought of the decision to not replace the crossing patrol, she said, that although there was a light controlled crossing, it was dangerous, as when the lights change to red cars don't always stop. Isn't the problem that children are not taught to look, but press the button, and when the green man shows cross the road? rather like many motorists do at traffic lights.

No, the problem is that many drivers take no notice of pedestrians waiting to cross the road, believing that their (the driver's) right to unimpeded rapid progress trumps the pedestrians right to get safely to their destination on the other side. This has lead to such innovation as zebra crossings and (when drivers still ignore the pedestrians right to cross) light controlled crossings. Because some drivers still ignore the (red) lights, pedestrians still need to look when the green man shows, but that need is a response to the underlying problem of ignorant and dangerous car drivers. Expecting children to understand such complex roots of the problem is difficult and they do need (for their own safety) to be trained to wait for cars to stop; this unfortunately reinforces the car drivers' assumption that all responsibility for keeping out of the vehicle's path rests with the pedestrian.
In short, the mother was right.

[Slink_Pink]

It's rather a shame that some of each of the categories of all road uses either feel that their journey is particularly urgent or simply pay no attention to other road users. If everyone played by the rules a little more then the 'game' would become much easier. This applies to all aspects of the road such as crossings, box junctions, merging, etc.

[lordgrover]

No, the problem is that many drivers take no notice of pedestrians waiting to cross the road, believing that their (the driver's) right to unimpeded rapid progress trumps the pedestrians right to get safely to their destination on the other side. ...

Apologies for selective quoting.

Is this something local to you or maybe inner cities? Is it really widespread?
I've not noticed this behaviour out in the 'burbs of Bristol and Bath.

[Ancient]

In my experience it's a problem which goes along with a certain type of urban culture. Certainly it is true in many parts of London, Nottingham, Birmongham and Coventry (so 'a city thing perhaps); some road types encourage it, usually those which emphasise traffic flow over local environment (an unfortunate tendency in most UK traffic management schemes) particularly when combined with high volumes of traffic (might is right).