Auto VS Manual

[michael769]

Just come back to this one. Had another observed drive in the auto. Observer recommended that I use the manual parts of the box a lot and viciously kick down on leaving a limit for NSL to show "good progress". So much for economy eh?

Nothing wrong with economy. Just bear in mind that on the test you have a very limited time to demonstrate you have all the skills of an advanced driver. If you spend the entire test driving economically how will the examiner know you have the skills to handle the car under more determined acceleration and progress?

[jcochrane]

Just come back to this one. Had another observed drive in the auto. Observer recommended that I use the manual parts of the box a lot and viciously kick down on leaving a limit for NSL to show "good progress". So much for economy eh?

It sounds that you're Observer is trying to get you to accelerate a lot more quickly to demonstrate a brisk drive that Examiners like to see. They are less impressed with a sedate Sunday afternoon potter in the country style.

By "kick down" I assume you mean he was asking you to use the kickdown feature of the auto box. I general prefer to select a suitable manual gear to achieve the rate of acceleration I want when my foot hasn't quite reached the point that would activate kickdown. I find I can then manage the acceleration transition more accurately and smoothly than the "kickdown" feature of the auto box. Correctly managed transistion is critically important and needs to be sensitively managed when driving a high performance car. I remember experimenting with the kickdown on a Merc AMG C63 and it would drop a couple of gears and rocket off in what I felt to be a very unfinessed way. Personally I also don't like the slight lag when kickdown is employed. So whether driving a high powered car or a less powerful one I prefer to opt to select a manual gear rather than kickdown when needing a lower gear for acceleration.

You may want to try manually selecting a lower gear as you approach an NSL and then firmly applying throttle as you pass the NSL sign post to achieve a brisk rate of acceleration up to the speed limit. (Assuming it is safe to do so.) This may impress your Observer next time you're with him and will eliminate the viciousness of kick down you mention whilst achieving a briskness and sparkle to the drive that Examiners like to see.

[triquet]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

It seems another example of a reserved special mis-use of the English language. From careful examination of AD world it seems to mean "like manure off a shovel" ....

[Gareth]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

Imagine there is some kind of emergency that requires you to be somewhere as soon as possible. Think extreme urgency. Drive accordingly.

On the test you need to demonstrate that even under great internal pressure you can drive safely. This is what you are practising. What you do at other times is your own choice.

[zadocbrown]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

It seems another example of a reserved special mis-use of the English language. From careful examination of AD world it seems to mean "like manure off a shovel" ....

As you can see, there are many opportunities in AD for getting into rather circular arguments. In time you will learn to navigate through these. The basic issue is that by its very nature AD is about optimising your drive. But we all have a tendency to optimise to suit our own purposes, then judge other people's drive by the same standards even though they may have different purposes. I sense an element of this in your situation. I would also say though, that in order to develop we need to be willing to experiment, even with suggestions that we may eventually discard.

Might we dig a little deeper here? I think you said progress was the main issue on test? And that you 'felt' the examiner didn't like the auto box.

I would hope you got feedback on what area of progress was lacking? Eg, was it lack of acceleration, hesitation at junctions, too slow through bends or not up to the limit when safe? All separate problems with different solutions.

Now the auto box. What exactly made you think the examiner didn't like it? What did he say with regard to the box or use of it?

[triquet]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

Imagine there is some kind of emergency that requires you to be somewhere as soon as possible. Think extreme urgency. Drive accordingly.

On the test you need to demonstrate that even under great internal pressure you can drive safely. This is what you are practising. What you do at other times is your own choice.

I am beginning to appreciate this point with regard to AD tests. Fair 'nuff and I shall adjust accordingly. But they don't put these things down in writing doubtless because if they did they would be accused of promoting speeding ...

[triquet]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

It seems another example of a reserved special mis-use of the English language. From careful examination of AD world it seems to mean "like manure off a shovel" ....

As you can see, there are many opportunities in AD for getting into rather circular arguments. In time you will learn to navigate through these. The basic issue is that by its very nature AD is about optimising your drive. But we all have a tendency to optimise to suit our own purposes, then judge other people's drive by the same standards even though they may have different purposes. I sense an element of this in your situation. I would also say though, that in order to develop we need to be willing to experiment, even with suggestions that we may eventually discard.

Might we dig a little deeper here? I think you said progress was the main issue on test? And that you 'felt' the examiner didn't like the auto box.

I would hope you got feedback on what area of progress was lacking? Eg, was it lack of acceleration, hesitation at junctions, too slow through bends or not up to the limit when safe? All separate problems with different solutions.

Now the auto box. What exactly made you think the examiner didn't like it? What did he say with regard to the box or use of it?

Nothing very specific, more along the lines of "Oh, it's an automatic is it? Sniff sniff"

[jont]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

Imagine there is some kind of emergency that requires you to be somewhere as soon as possible. Think extreme urgency. Drive accordingly.

"Late for your own wedding while being followed by a police car" was the circumstances I was given to imagine

[triquet]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

Imagine there is some kind of emergency that requires you to be somewhere as soon as possible. Think extreme urgency. Drive accordingly.

"Late for your own wedding while being followed by a police car" was the circumstances I was given to imagine

Ah, "making progress" in AD-speak ....

[jcochrane]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

It seems another example of a reserved special mis-use of the English language. From careful examination of AD world it seems to mean "like manure off a shovel" ....

Just for fun...
Very rough idea of rate of accleration, and not to be taken too literally, given a 1.4/1.6 standard petrol manual family car leaving a 30 mph limit into an NSL.

1. "manure off a shovel"...2nd gear steady 30mph. Then foot smartly down, right to the floor and held there to 60 mph.

2. Sunday potter...4th gear steady 30 mph. Then foot slowly eased a quarter way down, but no more because of fuel economy, leisurly allowing the speed to creep up to 60 mph.

3. Brisk. Something in between such as....3rd gear steady 30 mph. Then foot down quite quickly to threequarter or fully down and held until 60 mph.

Brisk acceleration is usually just one part of a "drive with pace"/"progress".

[jcochrane]

I am beginning to appreciate this point with regard to AD tests. Fair 'nuff and I shall adjust accordingly. But they don't put these things down in writing doubtless because if they did they would be accused of promoting speeding ...

I think "speeding" is often thought of as brisk acceleration which may sometimes be true but generally is a misconception. My understanding is speeding applies to a speed that is over posted limits or can also apply to a speed that exceeds the limit of road, car or driver. So a speed of 30mph in a 30mph limit could under some circumstances be viewed as speeding.

[Gareth]

And what pray does "brisk" mean in AD-speak?

I would hope you got feedback on what area of progress was lacking? Eg, was it lack of acceleration, hesitation at junctions, too slow through bends or not up to the limit when safe? All separate problems with different solutions.

Lack of progress is often not reacting to clearing a hazard, where the mind continues to dwell on what is in the past instead of concentrating solely on what is in the future.

[jont]

Just for fun...
Very rough idea of rate of accleration, and not to be taken too literally, given a 1.4/1.6 standard petrol manual family car leaving a 30 mph limit into an NSL.

1. "manure off a shovel"...

Sorry, but this level of acceleration simply isn't possibly in a 1.4/1.6 standard petrol manual family car. In fact about the only "joy" of driving a car like that is being able to give it death everywhere and still not really manage to get it to make any jerky transitions

[jcochrane]

Just for fun...
Very rough idea of rate of accleration, and not to be taken too literally, given a 1.4/1.6 standard petrol manual family car leaving a 30 mph limit into an NSL.

1. "manure off a shovel"...

Sorry, but this level of acceleration simply isn't possibly in a 1.4/1.6 standard petrol manual family car. In fact about the only "joy" of driving a car like that is being able to give it death everywhere and still not really manage to get it to make any jerky transitions

Maybe if you tried using 1st and 2 nd gear, downhill and a following wind......no. even that won't work.

[waremark]

My experience or interpretation seems to differ from some others here. I think examiners want to see that you can identify where it is consistent with safety and smoothness to go quickly within the limit. This means that they like to see prompt use of a positive rate of acceleration on leaving a hazard or limit. It does not require particularly firm acceleration. I took my high scoring Masters in a diesel car and did not use high revs or its performance potential. Years ago I took my Special Assessment in a very quick car, and I announced to examiner Fenland Flyer in commentary that just once I was going to accelerate firmly up to the limit to let him see the amazing potential of the car. Otherwise I only used a fraction of the performance potential.