Speeding

[TripleS]

"How is that fair, huh?"

I am afraid fairness or otherwise does not come into it; this is the reality of driving today. It is a downside of the speed limit enforcement regime, but as implementation of the regime has coincided with a period of significant reduction in traffic fatalities there is no likelihood of this regime being changed.

Hmm, does anybody know if this improved safety is being achieved because we're having less shunts; or is it because although we're (possibly) having the same number of shunts, we are surviving them better? If it is the latter, the bulk of the credit should go to the vehicle manufacturers.

[waremark]

"How is that fair, huh?"

I am afraid fairness or otherwise does not come into it; this is the reality of driving today. It is a downside of the speed limit enforcement regime, but as implementation of the regime has coincided with a period of significant reduction in traffic fatalities there is no likelihood of this regime being changed.

Hmm, does anybody know if this improved safety is being achieved because we're having less shunts; or is it because although we're (possibly) having the same number of shunts, we are surviving them better? If it is the latter, the bulk of the credit should go to the vehicle manufacturers.

Even if the former it could be due to ESP etc, and if the latter due to better emergency response. I carefully avoided saying there was a causal link!

[jont]

Even if the former it could be due to ESP etc, and if the latter due to better emergency response. I carefully avoided saying there was a causal link!

any excuse for XKCD

[TheInsanity1234]

...I have went though the entire route on GSV and there is street lighting throughout with no gaps. It is also, for the most part urban in character, those gaps in housing are still lit and that with the lack of terminal signs should make it quite obvious to anyone familiar with The Highway Code that the limit is 30..

I think plenty of drivers would assume that the limit has changed by the time they had arrived at this point.

My dad thinks that he was caught somewhere along that section.

... You could sign-up for the course as well.

Please accept my apologies. It has been pointed out to me that you haven't yet passed your driving test - my suggestion was therefore not appropriate.

Good luck when you do start learning to drive, and when the time is right have a serious think about signing up for one of the advanced driving courses. It's never too early to start one of these courses.

It's good to see someone of your age engaging so enthusiastically with driving relating matters.

That's quite alright, it's hardly inappropriate, I was wondering how much a short AD course would be as I'd like to do a quick one after passing my test because frankly with the average standards of driving as they are now, then obviously I'm going to have an accident a minute after passing my test, so I'd like to avoid that!

Anyway, to update everyone on the topic, my dad has received the fine in the post and it was as expected - £100 and 3 points.
Dad's going to pay it and accept the points, but mum's going to send a letter along with the payment in a last ditch attempt to get my dad's licence clean.
I suspect nothing'll come of it, but may as well, eh?

My mum's also just a bit unsure about the points, as they may have no effect on his premium, but she's worried that the points might push the premium up by a huge amount when I get added on the insurance.

Perhaps someone who knows more about this can tell me?

[michael769]

I can't offer any useful comments to TI about this case, though it does sound as if there was a bit of carelessness in terms of failing to appreciate what the limit was likely to be. Even so, I hope the outcome isn't too painful.

Anyhow, while out walking this afternoon on a rural road (single carriageway, single vehicle width) I saw four speed limit signs, white disc, red border, all showing a black 20.

Now I thought that to have legal effect, speed limit signs needed to be in pairs, one each side of the road; but these were on alternate sides of the road, 200/300 yards apart, and they were the small signs, like the size normally used for 40 mph repeaters. So, do the ones I've described sound to be in accordance with the law? I suspect they are not.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

They sound like repeaters, they don't have to be in pairs. Only the terminals need to be in pairs, and even then there are exceptions.

[hir]

... I was wondering how much a short AD course would be as I'd like to do a quick one after passing my test because frankly with the average standards of driving as they are now, then obviously I'm going to have an accident a minute after passing my test, so I'd like to avoid that!

A good idea. An AD course will fill in a lot of the gaps left by the DSA learner course. One ADI recently described the DSA learner test as not being fit for purpose.

A quick caveat on the "short" AD courses, ie. the IAM 2-day "Fast Track" course (cost c £250). Avoid them, there's not sufficient time to absorb and practice what's required in two days, the advanced test pass rate is barely more than 50%; the IAM know they have a problem with this product and are in the process of revisiting it.

However, the IAM's "Skill for Life" course usually consists of about 10 driving sessions, each of approx one and a quarter hours duration, usually over a period of about 3 months, the national IAM advanced test pass rate under the Skill for Life scheme is almost 90%.

[TripleS]

I can't offer any useful comments to TI about this case, though it does sound as if there was a bit of carelessness in terms of failing to appreciate what the limit was likely to be. Even so, I hope the outcome isn't too painful.

Anyhow, while out walking this afternoon on a rural road (single carriageway, single vehicle width) I saw four speed limit signs, white disc, red border, all showing a black 20.

Now I thought that to have legal effect, speed limit signs needed to be in pairs, one each side of the road; but these were on alternate sides of the road, 200/300 yards apart, and they were the small signs, like the size normally used for 40 mph repeaters. So, do the ones I've described sound to be in accordance with the law? I suspect they are not.

They sound like repeaters, they don't have to be in pairs. Only the terminals need to be in pairs, and even then there are exceptions.

I don't think they can be regarded as repeaters, as there don't seem to be any proper full size signs preceding them.

Anyhow, if anybody is minded to have a GSV 'drive' along there, turn off the A171 at Cloughton, onto Station Lane, and continue towards the sea. The lane goes more or less South, then turns through 90 deg. left and continues approx. East. All the signs are along this latter section. I suspect it is all a load of cobblers and they have no legal validity.

[MGF]

...I don't think they can be regarded as repeaters, as there don't seem to be any proper full size signs preceding them.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=clough ... 9,,0,19.15

[MGF]

Only if they have never read the Highway Code! The streetlights are not exactly hard to spot.

People get caught out because they look for buildings and not streetlights notwithstanding that they have read the HC prior to taking their driving test. It is a common mistake, hence the demand for repeaters.

[michael769]

People get caught because they,think they won't get caught.

[TheInsanity1234]

People get caught because they,think they won't get caught.

I wonder if you'll be singing the same hymn if you get caught doing something you genuinely thought was legal, and turned out to be illegal?

[MGF]

People get caught because they,think they won't get caught.

Your parachute's failed to open.

It is absurd to assert that if an individual has read the HC it follows that the rule regarding streetlights and restricted roads will be operating in their mind every time they drive. I suspect this is because you spend too much of your time reading the HC and give undue weight to its contents when assessing the credibility of others' knowledge of it.

[Zebedee]

Very good idea to do an AD course after passing your L-test. This is what I did. It definitely saved me from having an accident as a new driver. Have a look at both http://www.RoADAR.org.uk and the IAM Skills for Life programme.

A good idea. An AD course will fill in a lot of the gaps left by the DSA learner course. One ADI recently described the DSA learner test as not being fit for purpose.

A quick caveat on the "short" AD courses, ie. the IAM 2-day "Fast Track" course (cost c £250). Avoid them, there's not sufficient time to absorb and practice what's required in two days, the advanced test pass rate is barely more than 50%; the IAM know they have a problem with this product and are in the process of revisiting it.

However, the IAM's "Skill for Life" course usually consists of about 10 driving sessions, each of approx one and a quarter hours duration, usually over a period of about 3 months, the national IAM advanced test pass rate under the Skill for Life scheme is almost 90%.

It depends. The advantage of IAM Fast Track should be the even higher level of professionalism of the instructor. For a new driver, however, it may be too much info to take in within 2 days. I agree that Skills for Life might suit a new driver better.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

People get caught because they,think they won't get caught.

I wonder if you'll be singing the same hymn if you get caught doing something you genuinely thought was legal, and turned out to be illegal?

I'm sorry, but that's back to assumption, isn't it? "I thought the speed limit was likely to be 50 OR 60, so I was doing 47". In your Dad's case, I don't think it was as blatant as Michael is suggesting, just a wrong assumption, so don't take it too personally.

[TripleS]

...I don't think they can be regarded as repeaters, as there don't seem to be any proper full size signs preceding them.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=clough ... 9,,0,19.15

Ooh, how embarrassing: I had long forgotten about those, and not noticed them yesterday!

It doesn't matter to me from a practical point of view, as I always drive slowly in that sort of area, but it's further confirmation that I don't generally pay much attention to signs if I think I can manage without the information they convey. For the most part I concentrate on actual hazards, and drive according to those.

It is appreciated that many AD people will not find that approach fully satisfactory, but that's the way it is with me, and it seems to work OK, so I'm inclined to leave it at that.