Driving lesson

[TheInsanity1234]

In my experience the first stage is more about making the car do what you want, when you want and under smooth control. Once you're getting on well with that, your attention can move more outside and dealing with other road users, tricky junctions etc. When you've got that as well then it's time for your test!

Still only levels 1 and 2 though, Martin. We should be trying to bring in levels 3 and 4 especially with "exuberant" young chaps like Insanity1234 I thought it was interesting how his attention was all focused on level 1 in this initial lesson with the instructor wanting to move onto level 2 (observation outside the car), and some concern about the higher levels in his comments about exuberance...
[pic]
Insanity - good advice from Martin there but try and mix levels from the start rather than working up them one at at time.

I was merely doing what my instructor told me to do, re manoeuvres and things, so I think it's a prodecure at the group, to go up in steps, because I'm an unusual case. Most young drivers they get tend to have 0 experience the first time they go to one of their lessons, whereas I'd already had some experience in the past, and knew the basics of vroom-vrooming (Or driving, if you like)

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

It's a perfectly natural thing - you have to be able to control the machine, before you're able to divide your attention between controlling it and who else is around you. Hence why driving normally starts somewhere with little or no other traffic. But all along, you have to be aware of your emotions and beliefs, to ensure that they're providing control over your activities, rather than encouraging you into risky behaviour.

You notice that all your own feedback was about your pride in the physical skills of control - how you managed reversing, etc., rather than being interested in how you interacted with any other traffic (if there was any). Later you will see that the mechanics become subconscious, and the interaction 100x more important than just controlling the vehicle. Later still you will start to experience mixed emotions, and come to grapple with the need to keep them under control, so you learn from bad experiences, rather than blaming others, or succumbing to road rage.

[TheInsanity1234]

I would be concerned about interacting with other traffic, but since there were, at most, 10 cars, then you realise there won't be that many occasions to interact with road traffic.

That is the thing I'm hoping to achieve with these lessons, get all the necessary skills right, and motoring around safely, then out in the real world, post-17, all I have to focus on would be interacting with other road users, and managing my emotions and experiencing the pressures of day-to-day driving, rather than all that AND dealing with powerfully-built company directors in their BMW 750i's

[TheInsanity1234]

So, just posting this to let you guys know I've got a hour lesson tomorrow at 11, I'll post an report

[TheInsanity1234]

So, I did a 1 hour long session today, which included a turn in the road, parallel parking, reversing around a corner and 10 minutes of independent driving.

I also achieved 50 mph (With most of the accelerating being done in second - the worst sound I've heard in a while) and learnt how to do firm braking (as a result of doing 50 )



His comment about the use of the handbrake is because I tended to just yank the handbrake up without using the button, so it clicked through the ratchet. He picked it up after the turn in road, and told me that I should be pushing the button whilst applying the handbrake. It also enables me to be smoother with it too, and to adjust the pressure finely if necessary.

The gear selection comment was because when we attempted to get to 50 (about 5 tries, first one ended at 40, 2nd/3rd/4th tries ended at 45, 5th time, got up to 50), I had a tendency to change up to 3rd and 4th a bit too early (Partly because there's no sound-deadening in there, so it was making the most awful yowl as I accelerated harshly, and partly because there's no rev-counter, so I had no idea how close to the red line I got).

He said that I was a very quick developer, and I was able to pick up good habits (Life-saver check, 6 point check, handbrake button, etc) extremely quickly, and that my reversing was far more controlled than the last time.

So all in all, it was a pretty good lesson!

[waremark]

Insanity, I am incredibly impressed by your knowledge and enthusiasm for the subject of driving, and for your ambition to drive well, rather than just to pass a driving test. I think this suggests that you are dealing with the higher levels of the Goals for Driver Education matrix.

I am particularly interested to know how you became enthusiastic for driving well. You seem to want to drive safely, smoothly and at a good pace - the essential outcomes of advanced driving. I think many teenagers get their ideas about what constitutes good driving from their parents, but in your case you are constructively critical of your parents' driving.

[TheInsanity1234]

Insanity, I am incredibly impressed by your knowledge and enthusiasm for the subject of driving, and for your ambition to drive well, rather than just to pass a driving test. I think this suggests that you are dealing with the higher levels of the Goals for Driver Education matrix.

I am particularly interested to know how you became enthusiastic for driving well. You seem to want to drive safely, smoothly and at a good pace - the essential outcomes of advanced driving. I think many teenagers get their ideas about what constitutes good driving from their parents, but in your case you are constructively critical of your parents' driving.

I genuinely have no idea how I've got such an enthusiasm for driving. My parents are very much "average" drivers, and no more so than my dad. He despises driving in busy conditions, and is always stressed out by things on the roads.
My mum is more enthusiastic about driving than my dad, but this may be because she is able to cope easily with stressful situations than my dad. Having said that, neither of them are interested in driving to the point they would discuss it on an internet forum

I have a feeling that it might be something to do with the fact I was very aware of things from a young age, and from the age of 7-ish, I liked to have a big toy car in my parents' cars (one for each), and whenever I was in the front seat, I liked to pretend that I was driving that toy car on the road and react to events happening around us in real-time. So you could say that I was honing my spatial awareness and understanding of what pedal does what, and what the gears do etc. (Note that I haven't specified an age where this ends, mainly because I still do it! ) It's a nice way to pass the time on long journeys, and it does get you thinking about the differences between your reactions and the reactions of the driver. (I'm not bothered by people's opinions of me, which is lovely as I can do seemingly childish things and have fun - [grumble]children have all the fun these days![/grumble])

I believe in reincarnation, and I very strongly suspect that I might've been someone who was a race driver, as I seem to have an exceedingly sensitive sense of how a car feels, and, yes, it's not exactly the real world, but I seem to perform much, much better than most people on a game console when it comes to driving games, as I am always able to judge my speed, corners, when to move the wheel/joystick, etc. I'm never the fastest, but I often end up quite close to 1st place on most arcade games.

To be quite honest, I'm (not to blow my own trumpet) probably an exceedingly unique sort of person.
For instance, my English and grammar skills are quite a bit better than most people, and I can speak quite well and be understood by a lot of people, I know how to sign fluently, and write very well, even though I'm deaf.

I have a feeling I'm going to be a very well-known person in history, but I have no idea what for. Hopefully for being the best PM in the history of England

[skodatezzer]

Insanity, I've been following your posts with interest too and would endorse Waremark's comments about your approach to driving, and your obvious fascination with the "artistry" of the subject, i.e. how to do it well - the perfectionist approach which exercises the minds of many of us on here, myself included. I think several of us have said this to you before, but I'll repeat. Keep an eye on the "driver network" part of the forum for an ADUK driving day which you could get along to as a passenger / observer. You seem to be based Newbury-ish, well we had a day based there back in February (about which I can remember very little, as I attended with a severe dose of man-flu!!). There's every reason to hope that it may well be re-run next year (hint!) so that could well be the one for you - you could always bring a parent along as well if you wished - not all of the cars will be 2 seaters! I'm sure you would find the experience both informative and enjoyable.

Slightly off topic, but as a (retired) teacher (of music) who has had several pupils with differing levels of hearing impairment, I was very interested by your comments re your skill set, but I'm also curious about how you are able to sense what the car is doing. For instance, you talk about the noise it makes when you rev it hard - how are you picking that up - have you partial hearing, or are you sensing it otherwise? I'm thinking a bit of Dame Evelyn Glennie, the percussionist, who is profoundly deaf, but who is able to perform by dint of picking up vibrations from her instruments on her face, or through the floor, which is why she performs barefoot - not suggesting you try that when you're driving!

Anyway, keep your enthusiasm and keep posting - it's refreshing to have a young voice among the old fogies (by which I mean me!)

[TheInsanity1234]

Insanity, I've been following your posts with interest too and would endorse Waremark's comments about your approach to driving, and your obvious fascination with the "artistry" of the subject, i.e. how to do it well - the perfectionist approach which exercises the minds of many of us on here, myself included. I think several of us have said this to you before, but I'll repeat. Keep an eye on the "driver network" part of the forum for an ADUK driving day which you could get along to as a passenger / observer. You seem to be based Newbury-ish, well we had a day based there back in February (about which I can remember very little, as I attended with a severe dose of man-flu!!). There's every reason to hope that it may well be re-run next year (hint!) so that could well be the one for you - you could always bring a parent along as well if you wished - not all of the cars will be 2 seaters! I'm sure you would find the experience both informative and enjoyable.

I'm actually in Lambourn (cue the horsey-type jokes). I actually turn 17 in December, and aim to be close to/at pass level in terms of the driving test, and I hope to be able to do my driving test at some point in February/March if I'm lucky.

Slightly off topic, but as a (retired) teacher (of music) who has had several pupils with differing levels of hearing impairment, I was very interested by your comments re your skill set, but I'm also curious about how you are able to sense what the car is doing. For instance, you talk about the noise it makes when you rev it hard - how are you picking that up - have you partial hearing, or are you sensing it otherwise? I'm thinking a bit of Dame Evelyn Glennie, the percussionist, who is profoundly deaf, but who is able to perform by dint of picking up vibrations from her instruments on her face, or through the floor, which is why she performs barefoot - not suggesting you try that when you're driving!

I'm profoundly deaf, but I wear hearing aids which help me hear different sounds, and the Citigo is by no means the quietest car, but I can also sense the vibrations of the engine through my feet (wearing thin-soled shoes does help here). However, I have to say that with other cars, I tend to drive them by power/torque as well as speed, which just means when I feel that the engine is labouring (not difficult to sense, as most cars will judder slightly) it's time to change down (but I've never reached that point, I've always changed down in good time). If I feel that the engine has reached maximum torque, then it's time to change up.
I also change gear according to speed, so generally:
1st = 0 > 10
2nd = 10 > 20
3rd = 20 > 30
4th = 30 > 40
5th = 40 > 50
6th = 50 > 60+

I will adjust the speed margins depending on the car, but it's a useful rough guide.

Anyway, keep your enthusiasm and keep posting - it's refreshing to have a young voice among the old fogies (by which I mean me!)

Ta muchly!

[Ralge]

So, I did a 1 hour long session today, which included a turn in the road, parallel parking, reversing around a corner and 10 minutes of independent driving.

I also achieved 50 mph (With most of the accelerating being done in second - the worst sound I've heard in a while) and learnt how to do firm braking (as a result of doing 50 )



His comment about the use of the handbrake is because I tended to just yank the handbrake up without using the button, so it clicked through the ratchet. He picked it up after the turn in road, and told me that I should be pushing the button whilst applying the handbrake. It also enables me to be smoother with it too, and to adjust the pressure finely if necessary.

The gear selection comment was because when we attempted to get to 50 (about 5 tries, first one ended at 40, 2nd/3rd/4th tries ended at 45, 5th time, got up to 50), I had a tendency to change up to 3rd and 4th a bit too early (Partly because there's no sound-deadening in there, so it was making the most awful yowl as I accelerated harshly, and partly because there's no rev-counter, so I had no idea how close to the red line I got).

He said that I was a very quick developer, and I was able to pick up good habits (Life-saver check, 6 point check, handbrake button, etc) extremely quickly, and that my reversing was far more controlled than the last time.

So all in all, it was a pretty good lesson!

Indeed, good to hear that you are enjoying and learning.
As for the handbrake / ratchet mechanism - things have moved on and sorry to upset the applecart but I wouldn't have mentioned "not using the button".
Some cars' manuals tell us not to use the button at all (Ford Focus) and my experience of the Citigo suggests that Skoda take the same view.
I'm not an engineer but have thought in the past that, whilst in the past we may have been concerned about wearing the mechanism out and open ourselves to "vehicle sympathy" criticism from the DSA on test, modern materials in the mechanism rule out its wearing out in the lifetime of the car (?) AND not using the button is a far easier way to ensure the car is secured.
Wouldn't know for sure and, in any case, my own car has an electronic handbrake.

These comments from a learner's perspective.
From an AD perspective, not using the button to disengage the ratchet mechanism is a reason to mark down the candidate on a Gold test. Since I know some manufacturers advise you not to, there's considerable scope for confusion and I will check with HQ, thinking about it!
Thanks for raising the subject.

[TheInsanity1234]

Indeed, good to hear that you are enjoying and learning.
As for the handbrake / ratchet mechanism - things have moved on and sorry to upset the applecart but I wouldn't have mentioned "not using the button".
Some cars' manuals tell us not to use the button at all (Ford Focus) and my experience of the Citigo suggests that Skoda take the same view.
I'm not an engineer but have thought in the past that, whilst in the past we may have been concerned about wearing the mechanism out and open ourselves to "vehicle sympathy" criticism from the DSA on test, modern materials in the mechanism rule out its wearing out in the lifetime of the car (?) AND not using the button is a far easier way to ensure the car is secured.
Wouldn't know for sure and, in any case, my own car has an electronic handbrake.

These comments from a learner's perspective.
From an AD perspective, not using the button to disengage the ratchet mechanism is a reason to mark down the candidate on a Gold test. Since I know some manufacturers advise you not to, there's considerable scope for confusion and I will check with HQ, thinking about it!
Thanks for raising the subject.

The only reason why I didn't bother using the button was because I was (possibly unecessarily) concerned that if I pull it up with the button, then it just didn't feel like if I accidentally lost the grip on the handbrake that it would secure the car, and also it meant I had to think about where I needed to release the button. Just yank it up to where I think it's going to be fine and let it fall where I've pulled it up to. (does that even make sense?)

The noise doesn't really bother me, because I'm deaf, and also because I've felt a lot of things grate against other things, so it's a perfectly natural sensation when I pull it up through the ratchet.

If I felt that the car was particularly poorly made, and the ratchet was made of something like melted butter, then yes, I'll use the button, but most cars would have durable plastic or metal ratchets, so, there's no need to be extremely careful with the button.

When it comes to the handbrake, I always use the button until the lever seems to have reached its limit (and in your own car, you soon learn where that is), then release the button to get the final "click". The noise of the ratchet just jars with me, probably because I'm from the era when the ratchets were made from a material like cheese and you didn't want to have to replace it within 5000 miles.

It doesn't particularly bother me, but I can see how it annoys people. (It annoyed the instructor!

[fungus]

As Ralge said, pushing the handbrake button in is not an issue with the DVSA any longer. There is more emphasis on refering to the manufacturers hand book nowadays because of the ever increasing variety of safety aids on modern cars. On my Fiesta the advice from Ford is not to push the handbrake button in. Vauxhall advised not pushing the button in on the Vectra a few years ago after reports of handbrake failure.

[waremark]

I guess the reason the Fiesta handbook suggests not pushing in the button is because it is written for the most moronic reader who might otherwise hold the button in all the time, let go the handbrake, and sue For when the car rolls away.

Can anyone suggest more likely reason?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

When it comes to the handbrake, I always use the button until the lever seems to have reached its limit (and in your own car, you soon learn where that is), then release the button to get the final "click".

^^ Wot 'e said (except sometimes 2 clicks).

[TheInsanity1234]

I guess the reason the Fiesta handbook suggests not pushing in the button is because it is written for the most moronic reader who might otherwise hold the button in all the time, let go the handbrake, and sue For when the car rolls away.

Can anyone suggest more likely reason?

Maybe because there are people who have had slight accidents due to parking on a hill, they pull the handbrake up with the button, release the handle + button at the same time, and the brakes loosen just enough to allow the car to roll back slightly and crunch the bumper of the car behind?