Buying a car

Forum for general chat, news, blogs, humour, jokes etc.

Postby Nigel » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:06 am


I've been chatting to a young lady who is a member on here, her name is Suzy, she's recently passed her test and is looking to buy a car.

She isn't sure of what to look for etc, I've tried to give her some advice, which I'll list here, perhaps others could join in.

Please take it easy on her, she doesn't understand all the different types of running costs, services, cam belt changes etc.

1) There aren't really any "bad" cars left out there, the standards the companies who build them need to attain are rather high.

2) Don't worry too much about which cars you often see reported in the news that have been involved in accidents, this is more likely to be that the particular car appeals to the boy racer brigade, than there is anything wrong with the design, the particular car Suzy asked about in relation to that was a Vauxhall Corsa.

3) If your not "into" cars, either buy from a main dealer, or a very good reputable second hand car dealer, this will normally have been recommended by family or friends.

4) At a dealer a car will have been hpi checked, if you buy privately, I'd suggest you always do this yourself.

5) Verify the milage by checking the service record, old mot's etc.

6) A low milage car isn't always a better buy than a high milage one, providing the high milage car has been well serviced it will often be better than one that has just been stop started, shopping and school runs etc.Average milage should be about 10 - 12,000 miles a year.

7) Always look at servicing costs, there will normally be about three types of service, a type one (minor), a type two (intemediate), and a type three (major) The pattern will normally be one, two, one, three and so on.

8) A service interval is a mixture of time versus milage, eg 10,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.

9) Cam belts, most modern cars have cam belts, since the introduction of three year warranties, the interval for changing these has dropped to 40,000 miles or four years whichever comes first. Check the price of a cam belt change, some cars ( I think the fiat marea was one) need the engine removed to do this, which makes the job very expensive.

10) If you buy a second hand car from a dealer, check what warranty your getting, Vauxhalls network Q is about the best at the moment, generally being considered as good as a new car warranty.

11) IF buying a car that can have dual fuel as a factory fitted option, consider it, you will get cheaper running costs, tax, avoid congestion charges etc, if it has been fitted as an aftermarket job, avoid unless you can have it verified, it could give you insurance / warranty problems

12) If buying from a main dealer ask them about insurance, a lot now offer a free years insurance, especially with brand new cars.

13) Have a look on the net at reliability studies, you'll probably notice the Japs do better than most.

I'll try and think of some more, anyone else care to add some ?
Nigel
 

Postby MiniClubmanEstate » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:00 am


I would always say a good choice is something practical, fun to drive, comfortable on long drives, safe, stylish, cheep and rewarding to run and easly servicable.
You can buy such a car here. http://www.theminimart.co.uk/home.htm

The best one there at the moment I thnk is this one. http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/classicdd.cfm?Account=SHD7900562&VehicleID=AETV703930&Photo=http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/is/remotemanaged/SHD7900562/AETV703930_1a.jpg

A car such as this costs very little to tax and insure, is super fuel efficient, very safe as this is a modern Mini with Servo assisted disk brakes, very responsiive if you want it to be, comfortable to drive with the latter Mini suspension but at the same time there is lot's of fun to be had if you take it onto a track, can be serviced as easily if not easier than a modern car as you can take your unique little car to a huge number of classic Mini dealers and garages who are usualy enthusiasts and as such will look after the car and its owner and remember, most love classic Mini's as they are a fashion trend which will never be dated.
I could go on all day as to why a Mini is the best thing money can buy, but I'll let this photo do the talking. :wink:

Image
Andrew: PCV, IAM Car
Smoky - Pronounced as Smokey, a unique little Mini.
User avatar
MiniClubmanEstate
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Edinburgh - Scotland

Postby madmoggy » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:26 pm


When deciding on a car/model, use the internet to research known problems and good/bad points. A lot of info can be gained by using something like Parkers guide. When looking to buy my last car I used Wisebuyer to narrow my choices and help make a decision.
If you see a car that you like, try and speak to the owner and ask him/her for their opinion.
madmoggy
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle (ish)

Postby jont » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:38 pm


Nigel wrote:10) If you buy a second hand car from a dealer, check what warranty your getting, Vauxhalls network Q is about the best at the moment, generally being considered as good as a new car warranty.

On the other hand when we were looking for an Astra for my wife last year, I saw a NetworkQ approved car with a 50p size chunk missing out of one of the tyre sidewalls and decided we'd rather go and buy a car that was roadworthy (the back seat was full of leaves too from the boot being left open which didn't help).

Budget can make a big difference - I wouldn't bother with a dealer unless you're looking to spend at least 3k. An AA/RAC inspection will cost ~£150 if you're buying privately, but will probably point out enough to negotiate that back (or as a friend found with 1 car he was looking at the chassis on 1 side was an inch shorter than the other. He didn't buy that car!)

If you're taking out a loan, try somewhere like moneysupermarket as the rates will be about 1/2 of what a dealer offers.

Even when you find a car you like, use autotrader/parkers to check the price is reasonable. It's easier to negotiate with dealers for things that they can have done at trade cost, rather than knocking the price down (eg service/new tyres/car mats etc)

Having a local trustworthy garage that can service the car may make a difference as to which manufacturer you choose - my parents bought Peugeots for a while because there was a very good independant local specialist (and not many other garages around)
User avatar
jont
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:56 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Postby Lynne » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:51 pm


Although this wouldn't apply to Suzi as she's not looking at that particular type of car, many years ago we ended up buying an old taxi that had been clocked.

So I would say if not buying from a main dealer get the AA or RAC to do a vehicle inspection check on it. (Cheaper if someone in family is a member) When I bought my jeep I had one done (about £200 - £250) it was well worth it. Small oil leak and a few other bits and pieces showed up which was fixed and we even got a bit knocked off the price.
ADI
RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Driving Instruction

Thankyou for being courteous to horses and riders :)
Lynne
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Essex




Postby cabbyman » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:11 pm


I had an RAC report done on the first taxi I bought. Well worth the money and it included an HPI check.

I would disagree that aftermarket dual fuel conversions should be avoided. Many factory fitted vehicles have more problems than later conversions.

In either case an LPGA certificate should be available and a full inspection of the system should be conducted by a LPGA registered engineer.
cabbyman
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: Hampshire

Postby AdamW » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:25 pm


Nigel wrote:
1) There aren't really any "bad" cars left out there, the standards the companies who build them need to attain are rather high.


Sorry Nigel I dont agree. There are bad cars out there with usually certain badges on them. I wont mention what cars incase of upsetting some with my opinion but if she is looking for a car of say 'three years or younger' I would say she should start with a car survey to highlight which cars apparently are at the top of the hill (your point 13).

Something like this,

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-rep ... ?NA=214562

Anything in the bottom half I would have to be offered a seriously cracking deal.

How much is she looking to spend?
One of the first things for a new drver would be to get some insurance quotes because it can be far more than you'd hoped.

If I were to typically recommend a list of cars for someone in her position it'd be like this:

· Ford Fiesta (1.25 engine )
· Ford Ka (96 on)
· Mazda 2 (03 on)
· Nissan Micra
· SEAT Arosa
· SEAT Ibiza
· Skoda Fabia
· smart city coupé (00-04)
· Suzuki Wagon-R+ (97-00)
· Toyota Yaris
· Vauxhall Agila
· Volkswagen Lupo
· Volkswagen Polo







:)
Despite their large numbers ants flow freely because of their understanding and purpose. As a driver your job is to move in, within, and out of the flow of traffic causing the minimum disruption and upset to others. Everyone then benefits, including you.
AdamW
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Postby waremark » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:29 am


I would endorse the comment to start with insurance quotes. Suzy has the good fortune not to be a young man! but even for a girl insurance will probably be the highest running cost.

In spite of the enthusiasm of the mini enthusiasts, I would urge any young friend or relation to try to buy a recent car with modern safety equipment and the highest possible Euro NCAP rating.

Obviously missing superminis from Adam's list are the Honda Jazz and Nissan Micra which both score highly on JD Power. But I wouldn't be tied by this list - my son has a Clio which I think is great and which he loves. He chose it based mainly on emotion - let's face it a car is such an important purchase that you must have something which really appeals on an emotional level. And if you want particularly good value consider a Fiat Punto.
waremark
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:18 pm

Postby AdamW » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:49 am


The Micra is on there. I left the Jazz out as I thought/presumed (rightly or wrongly) that'd be too expensive for a first car.

I left the Clio out as I owned one and got rid due to the number of problems and the useless dealer who couldn't repair it.
Despite their large numbers ants flow freely because of their understanding and purpose. As a driver your job is to move in, within, and out of the flow of traffic causing the minimum disruption and upset to others. Everyone then benefits, including you.
AdamW
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Postby Nigel » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:50 am


When I chattd to her, she had a cieling of approx £8,000, so she should be able to afford most things.

I'd be interested in Adams thoughts on "bad" cars and why (real reasons, not just I don't like BMWs or whatever as I'm jealous)

I get to drive many cars, and I can honestly say I haven't come across one I could describe as bad for many years.

There are those I prefer over others, but thats just personal tastes.

I'm actually well impressed with my wifes little Kia Picanto at the moment, such a cheap car that is very pleasant to drive.
Nigel
 

Postby AdamW » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:35 pm


Right then, bad car list:

Daewoo Matiz
Fiat Punto
Fiat Seicento
Peugeot 106
Peugeot 206
Renault Clio
Citroen Saxo
Rover 25/MG ZR

Is a start off the top of my head. I know others are going to disagree, I do not mean any offence, just my opinion.


My example is one from experience of three owners in my office(others if you want them?).

Fiat Punto -

Engine/Gearbox Reliability - Terrible, two have had replacement heads gaskets (one twice) under warranty with the car being off the road for a lengthy period of time.
Electrical Reliability - Nothing bad to report, although lights coming on/off at their free will seem to be the bug.
Brakes/Suspension/Steering - Brakes are at best wooly and have to be stamped on to stop the car with any urgency. Suspension and steering might as well be connected to another car. The suspension is too soft causing the rocks and rolls which gives an awful ride. The steering wheel turns quite a bit before any change in direction.
Fit/Finish - Not great materials used, but are better than the 206 elephant hide dash. Door trims have fallen off one car with other bits of internal trim coming away from where they should be.
Squeaks/Rattles - The full cars all squeek and rattle, I think they are supposed to be like that.
Performance - What performance? The 1.9 diesel seems fine, very slowand is noisy and unrefined. The 1.2 seems spirited and one lad uses his on the motorway frequently. Nothing to race with mind. lol.
Handling - Now the 1.2 seems the best out of the lot, the diesel is just too heavy and doesnt handle. My 98 Clio handled better than them by far.
Comfort/Practicality - Odd driving psotion coupled with small pedals (which small cars dont have small pedals) make for a elevated driving position which for my six foot two frame I personally hate. The practical side is fine, I've not messed with putting the seats down etc but one lad easily put the pram in the boot. Although when the child seat was in the back seat meant the front passengar seat had to be forward causing cramp on anything longer than a 15 minute journey. No comfort level different to most other cars, but the seats are a tad hard.
Customer Care - Now not dealing with the main dealers myself I cant really comment. When the car was undergoing any work they at least had a courtesy car sometimes.
Ownership Costs - Probably the best bit, if you can live with a car that is off the road for a whle time to time with the warranty work going on it'll be fine. All models seem to be good on juice and servicing etc are about as good as they get form main dealers.

Have I missed anything?
Despite their large numbers ants flow freely because of their understanding and purpose. As a driver your job is to move in, within, and out of the flow of traffic causing the minimum disruption and upset to others. Everyone then benefits, including you.
AdamW
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Postby Nigel » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:07 pm


Ah here we go, this is personal taste stuff, or listening to others experiences of dealers.

We have had two of the cars you list, A renault Clio (barritz model I thnik), and a 1.6 litre Rover 25.

I enjoyed driving them both, neither were troublesome, and the "satalite " dealers we used were superb.

I can give you loads of bad experiences with one particular Renault main dealer (regarding my company Laguna estates), and I thought those cars were very expensive to maintain, but I can't describe them as bad cars, they were lovely to drive, well built etc.
Nigel
 

Postby AdamW » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:48 pm


Nigel wrote:Ah here we go, this is personal taste stuff, or listening to others experiences of dealers.
.


Surely every car is down to personal taste and listening to other opinions?

So you would dismiss a survey such as WhatCars or TopGears because they have been made up of peoples opinions?

Or was it saracism?

Renaults well built? Your having a laugh arent you?
Try searching the web for the dci engines and the egr valve.
I have seen threads a mile long with peoples troubles because of them.

I darent mention the K Series engines. Although they performed worse when lugging a big hunk of metal around like a FreeLander.

I think generally main dealers are expensive, which ever make you own.
They have expensive sales people to cater for.
:wink:

I could mention a Peugeot dealer in my area who supplied a mate with a new 206 GTi. He had it about three months before one day his passengar window fell out on to the seat as he put his window up. He rang the dealer and explained the problem, they said they could book him in for the correction work in a fortnight. Obviously not the response he had wanted, so he took the car the the dealer there and then and asked for his money back. Needless to say he had his window fixed in fifteen minutes or so.

I havent had a great time with my local Honda dealer and have stopped using them due to high prices and lack of atention when I have been paying their prices.

Need I go on?
Despite their large numbers ants flow freely because of their understanding and purpose. As a driver your job is to move in, within, and out of the flow of traffic causing the minimum disruption and upset to others. Everyone then benefits, including you.
AdamW
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Postby jont » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:11 pm


From your experiences Adam, it sounds like you'd would be happier buying an older car for £2-3000 where any old garage can fix it and you certainly don't need to worry about main dealers? Some people think main dealer gives peace of mind and having a new car is worth paying for for the warranty you get. Unfortunately I think all manufacturers can suffer from the "friday afternoon car" and it sounds like you may have had more that your fair share of these.

The newer car the more the need to visit a main dealer for "special service tools". However the is no requirement to for warranty reasons - under recent EU law you can have a car serviced at any VAT registered garage and the manufacturer still has to honour the warranty.

I'd be wary of rarer cars (such as the Korean ones) because garages may not have had as much experience dealing with them and the residuals may be lower.

106/Saxo - cracking little car with great chuck around handling. Emphasis on "little" though. My biggest issue with them is the offset/cramped pedal box, but again, that's a personal thing. 306 is dirt cheap and has much more room. Apart from the sport models all are ~group 5 or less insurance so cheap to insure.

Any Pug/Vauxhall/Ford/Renault has cheap spare parts readily available from motor factors and the like unlike my Toyota which needs a visit to the main dealer for most parts. OTOH (thouching wood!) it doesn't go wrong anywhere near as much as my pugs did :roll:
User avatar
jont
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:56 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Postby Nigel » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:12 pm


I wouldn't consider it a bad car on the issues you have listed.

Lancia for example would have been listed as a bad car by me, especially when the engine dropped onto the ground when you shut the door, allegro's popping out the rear windows when you jacked them up to change a wheel.

BMW have had many issues lately with their Motorsport models, ( I haven't seen any postings for a while, so assume the issues are rectified).

At £50,000 a go, or something like that, its an expensive problem.

You will find the press raving about the preformance, the handling etc, but very rarely do you see anything written regarding reliabilty problems.

Remember the "nikisil" issue ?, now that was an expensive problem in many expensive cars.

To some extent you get what you pay for, dealers have far more to do with what peoples experience rather than the manufacturour.

And yes, I found the two Laguna estates I had as company cars ( covering 150,000 miles in each) to be well built, and reliable. What I didn't like was the servicing and spares costs.

I find the things we critise now to be almost laughable, we think nothing of running a car for 150,000 miles, and still expect it to pass an mot on emmisions.

A few years ago you'd have been rebuilding the engine at about 60,000 miles.
Nigel
 

Next

Return to General Car Chat Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests