Don't cross the lines

[Carbon Based]

In order to resolve a discussion, could anyone please clarify the level of offence / likely outcome of crossing the solid lines just prior to the broken lines of a motorway slip road. possiby surrounding a hatched area, if it makes any difference.

My understanding is that they fall into "must not cross, except in an emergency" and are broadly similar to double white lines that prohibit overtaking.

The conversation was sparked by watching someone else leave their exit from the motorway so late that their near side wheels crossed the hatched area, offside wheels were on grass.

[Big Err]

If it is the chevrons markings bounded by solid lines found at the nose of the merge, diverge or forming a "tiger tail" arrangement, you can be issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice - offence under the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions.

If it is the nearside verge line I'd expect the offence of driving in the hard shoulder comes into play under the Motorway Traffic Regulations.

[Kimosabe]

If crossing any line is a matter of safety, then I think it's reasonable to do so, if done safely. For me, joining from a slip because the traffic infront is joining too slowly, could mean having to give way/ stop at the end of the slip ( ) or to pull infront of faster traffic in L1 which may need to take evasive action as a result. So there are times when crossing a hatched area is reasonable if it's done properly. I would want to be able to cross lane 1 to get into lane 2 before passing the end of the slip, so such occasions are rare, require excellent observation and are not to be taken lightly.

[triquet]

AFAIK, solid white lines are an absolute. Don't cross. Safety is not an adequate reason, an emergency might be arguable, but don't get yourself into that position.

[fungus]

IIAC, the Highway Code states that you must not enter them except in an emegency. My neighbour had a coleague who was issued with a fixed penalty notice for the offence. Apart from the fine, he also got three points on his licence.

[Carbon Based]

Cheers all, although I'd argue that safety is always an adequate reason - better to end up debating in court than hospital...

Vehicles ahead on the slip road making a meal of joining the motorway, generally by attempting to remain at 40/50mph with lane 1 moving at 56/70 is something I see quite a lot. I tend to hang back a bit so that I have space to vary speed in order to slot into the gap, again with a view to getting to L2/3 swiftly.

[triquet]

The big problem we have round here is not motorway but heavily loaded dual carriageway (in my case the A34) which has short slip roads, sometimes with bends and carp visibility. You really have to match speeds with available gaps, take a quick lifesaver look over the shoulder, and then stamp on the brakes because somebody has tootled down the slip road and come to a dead halt ...

[michael769]

If it is the chevrons markings bounded by solid lines found at the nose of the merge, diverge or forming a "tiger tail" arrangement, you can be issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice - offence under the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions.

No such offence exists within TSRGD. The offence I suspect you may be thinking of only applies to markings separating traffic travelling in different directions.

Crossing the solid white lines on a motorway is an offence contrary to Reg 5 of the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 (driving other than on the carriageway of a motorway, similar provisions exist for Scotland).

[MGF]

It is an offence of failing to comply with a traffic sign contrary to S36 RTA 1988. Similar to red lights, no entry and double white lines.

Road markings are here:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002 ... 113_en_149

Application of S36 is at (f) here:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002 ... on/10/made


No offence if used in an emergency. Safety per se is not a defence.

[sussex2]

I've seen the white lines crossed here more times than I would like to count. It is common place. It does seem that the purpose of a solid white line is lost on an awful lot of people.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.26488 ... n_MLLw!2e0

[TheInsanity1234]

The big problem we have round here is not motorway but heavily loaded dual carriageway (in my case the A34) which has short slip roads, sometimes with bends and carp visibility. You really have to match speeds with available gaps, take a quick lifesaver look over the shoulder, and then stamp on the brakes because somebody has tootled down the slip road and come to a dead halt ...

The A34 has got to be the most awful D/C I've ever seen.

The A127 and the A13 in Essex are both terrible, but the slip-roads are at least long.

The worst thing about the A34, as you say, are the slip-roads.

You really have to be flooring it before you've even reached the merge point, which means if there's no gaps, or someone has stopped dead at the end of the slip-road, your brakes are getting a work out.

The problem is compounded by the fact there's no hard-shoulder to escape on to if you've made a mistake.

One particular junction in my head is this one.
It looks plenty big enough, but the trouble is, it's by no means long enough, because you cannot see the traffic until you're on the corner, and because of that corner, you're doing 25-35 mph, and you have to accelerate to around 60 to match the speed of the traffic in L1.


Even worse, when there's no gaps, and you have to slow down until one becomes available.

You're usually at the end by that point, and you have to merge into a gap doing about 15 mph, with traffic doing quadruple the speed approaching.

[triquet]

And many a person has had an Interesting and Exciting Experience coming off the A34 at one of these slip roads !

[Kimosabe]

It is an offence of failing to comply with a traffic sign contrary to S36 RTA 1988. Similar to red lights, no entry and double white lines...
No offence if used in an emergency. Safety per se is not a defence.

See that's where I see a valid argument in favour of taking considered evasive action so as to avoid an accident, as long as doing so doesn't cause or nearly cause another. This is not to say that being in a hurry is a reasonable defence for doing so. I can't think of a reason for why I wouldn't cross such a painted sign if my reason for doing so was one of valid safety concern. I currently consider potentially useable territory as part of my 'Systematic, Safe, etc' ideals. I do hold back on a slip so as to allow other drivers ahead to sort themselves out, so don't think I do this as a matter of course, because I don't.

I believe the first post I ever replied to here, sometime last year was one which our 'Martine' posted his views regarding using the hard shoulder to go around another vehicle on a slip for safety reasons. I think that was the basis of his argument for considering doing so but will happily be advised otherwise if it wasn't.

This is clearly another lesson I would like to be clear about. I'll change my opinion if someone can reasonably counter the safety issue, (albeit an extreme circumstance of collision avoidance) in which I wouldn't think white lines play a massive part for road users when avoiding a collision.

Minor deviation ahead: I quite like my new attitude of considering the whole road as potentially useable territory. Since practising 'off-siding' more regularly (this came as a result of observing and questioning trainee police advanced drivers), I feel able to reach my own reasoned conclusions about when and where to cross the broken centre lines in order to maintain a view ahead. I recently had an unmarked Police training car behind me for many miles and for much of the time it maintained a safe following distance, while driving with the car either straddling the centre markings or completely on the other carriage. At no point did their doing so cause me to change my driving plan and I think this demonstrates that when considered manoeuvers are executed correctly, they can be of greater benefit to all. I was also doing the same as them while infront of them and when we parted at a junction, the instructor gave me a friendly smile and a wave..... at least that's how I read it

Ineteresting thread this.

[7db]

OP: £100 & 3 pts. Motorway regs.