What car?

[Grahar]

Diesels are very good these days (especially used as an every day car) but a decent petrol engined car provides a level of joy on a good road that a diesel can't hope to meet for these reasons:

1. They sound so much better.
2. They rev more freely.
3. They have a wider power band.

Because of how the performance is delivered and how they sound, diesels always feel like they're delivering their performance (stunning though it might be) in a slightly begrudging way.

You've obviously never been out in my A3. 170 metric horses of joy and still does over 50mpg. It even sounds nice. Plus, it's not French.

Petrols tend to feel a bit weedy to me in comparison. Although a lot of that may be down to needing a slightly different driving style.

I've driven and had a few of the high performance BMW diesels as lease cars. Even these can't tempt me. Is the Audi particularly free reving? I've not driven an Audi diesel (A6) since about 2006 and it was ok.

[Silk]

I've driven and had a few of the high performance BMW diesels as lease cars. Even these can't tempt me. Is the Audi particularly free reving? I've not driven an Audi diesel (A6) since about 2006 and it was ok.

2006 would probably mean a PD engine. They were ok in their day, but easily outclassed by the later CR engines. The torque curve on the 170 is almost flat from around 1700 rpm, so the peak power is delivered near the top of the rev range, a bit like a petrol. You don't get everything in one lump as you did with the older engines. You can get away with leaving it in third through the twisty stuff and it'll pull hard up to the red line.

[trashbat]

I had the Alfa 2.4 JTD lump for about a month. It was a good, competent engine - better on paper and in several realities than my petrol - and it made a better sound to boot. You could drive it much the same way if you so desired. I didn't expect to like it but I came away thinking I'd happily start again and own one.

However it was nose heavy so understeered, but worse, less engaging. I'd rather have to wring the life out of a petrol. For an AD apprentice I'd say petrol is where it's at.

[Grahar]

I suppose having a lighter nose in a petrol engined car is another advantage for a keen driver, although maybe diesel engines are now lighter. I've felt more weight at the front in the smaller diesel cars but not really in any of the BMWs I've driven, maybe because they're rear wheel drive.

[TheInsanity1234]

Diesels are very good these days (especially used as an every day car) but a decent petrol engined car provides a level of joy on a good road that a diesel can't hope to meet for these reasons:

1. They sound so much better.
2. They rev more freely.
3. They have a wider power band.

Because of how the performance is delivered and how they sound, diesels always feel like they're delivering their performance (stunning though it might be) in a slightly begrudging way.

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a diesel, but at least take a decent petrol car for a spirited drive on a good road and compare with a diesel. I'm a true petrol head so for me a diesel car is always going to be a compromise to the joy of driving!

I want a petrol, so don't you worry!
I just seem to think it makes more sense, as I'll only really be doing less than 30 miles a day, 13 or so miles both ways, so I'm not sure how a diesel would cope, especially with a DPF. Mainly because it's a 20 minute drive. I just don't really imagine that a DPF would be very happy in a commute like that, as I don't think there's enough running time for the engine to fully burn off the soot collected.

P.S A Panda 100 is borderline hot hatch so am not sure why you are conceptually against hot-hatches?!

A Panda 100 HP is one of the very few hot-hatches I like. A Golf GTI does fall into the "I like" category, so yes, I do like hot-hatches.

The only issue is, in my eyes, a hot-hatch isn't supposed to look that much different from a standard car, but it has uprated power and drive-train components. Unfortunately, most hot-hatches, especially the Clio Cup seem to be all about (for want of a better description) chavs, and men who are having mid-life crisises.

I dunno. I just don't like them that much.

[Grahar]

Diesels are very good these days (especially used as an every day car) but a decent petrol engined car provides a level of joy on a good road that a diesel can't hope to meet for these reasons:

1. They sound so much better.
2. They rev more freely.
3. They have a wider power band.

Because of how the performance is delivered and how they sound, diesels always feel like they're delivering their performance (stunning though it might be) in a slightly begrudging way.

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a diesel, but at least take a decent petrol car for a spirited drive on a good road and compare with a diesel. I'm a true petrol head so for me a diesel car is always going to be a compromise to the joy of driving!

I want a petrol, so don't you worry!
I just seem to think it makes more sense, as I'll only really be doing less than 30 miles a day, 13 or so miles both ways, so I'm not sure how a diesel would cope, especially with a DPF. Mainly because it's a 20 minute drive. I just don't really imagine that a DPF would be very happy in a commute like that, as I don't think there's enough running time for the engine to fully burn off the soot collected.

P.S A Panda 100 is borderline hot hatch so am not sure why you are conceptually against hot-hatches?!

A Panda 100 HP is one of the very few hot-hatches I like. A Golf GTI does fall into the "I like" category, so yes, I do like hot-hatches.

The only issue is, in my eyes, a hot-hatch isn't supposed to look that much different from a standard car, but it has uprated power and drive-train components. Unfortunately, most hot-hatches, especially the Clio Cup seem to be all about (for want of a better description) chavs, and men who are having mid-life crisises.

I dunno. I just don't like them that much.

I think nowadays, particularly with insurance as it is most of the chavs/boyracers are buzzing around in in horrifically modified 1.3/1.4 Corsas (cheapo alloys and parpy exhuasts!). You see some real sheds and you think 'how can you be proud of that' or 'who are trying to kid that your car is a serious performance model!'

Most of them are probably slower than the unmodified versions because of wheel spacers that that cause the wheels to constantly rub on on the wheel arches at the slightest whiff of weight transfer or the dogged understeer from the massive strut brace in the bonnet!

[trashbat]

Aye, probably. This one was a bit much for its suspension, quite a handling difference. The 1.9 is probably a more sensible proposition in that sense.

I was impressed by its overtaking ability, pull from low down, lack of lag (to be fair, my petrol has/had a flat spot and doesn't do much below 3k) and as it was a 5 pot, the almost V10esque silly howl when you get it above certain revs.

As hinted at though , there's a learning curve and fact that you have to work at it with an N/A petrol that teaches you a fair bit. Maybe like an automatic vs manual kind of argument. I kind of like driving my GF's underpowered 1.2 Fiat 500 for this reason because it makes me plan and react a bit more accordingly.

[Grahar]

Is the 2.4 JTD a 5 pot? I'd didn't realise that or had at least forgotten - that is quite interesting.

[candriver]

Well, since I'm turning 17 at the end of this year, and I currently have nothing better to do.

I'm looking for ideal first cars that are cheap to insure.

Get a used car about 5-6 years and take insurance quotes before selecting the model. Subaru can have good insurance price because those are 4 wheel drive and have good safety rating.

[TheInsanity1234]

Well, since I'm turning 17 at the end of this year, and I currently have nothing better to do.

I'm looking for ideal first cars that are cheap to insure.

Get a used car about 5-6 years and take insurance quotes before selecting the model. Subaru can have good insurance price because those are 4 wheel drive and have good safety rating.

Holy thread revival!

But yeah, with a budget of probably £2000 if I'm lucky, there's fat chance I'll get anywhere near a car newer than 6/7 years.

What kind of Subaru have you got in your head, because last time I checked, most of them tended to be either rally derived petrols, or farming diesel lumps that are still very expensive to insure.

[fungus]

I would think any Subaru will be very expensive to run and insure for a 17 year old. I would look for a realitively low milage 1L or 1.2L that's not popular with the boy racers and get a couple years NCD under your bonnet before going for anything with more performance.

[TheInsanity1234]

I would think any Subaru will be very expensive to run and insure for a 17 year old. I would look for a realitively low milage 1L or 1.2L that's not popular with the boy racers and get a couple years NCD under your bonnet before going for anything with more performance.

Well, I'm currently considering the 1.2 fiat panda!

Complete opposite to the usual demographic I guess

[michael769]

I would think any Subaru will be very expensive to run and insure for a 17 year old. I would look for a realitively low milage 1L or 1.2L that's not popular with the boy racers and get a couple years NCD under your bonnet before going for anything with more performance.

Indeed Subaru's are associated with middle aged "Boy" racers and offroad/commercial use and tend to be generally expensive to insure, ruinously so for younger drivers.

[TripleS]

What car, eh? Never mind about that; we've just bought a new wheelbarrow and I'm entirely happy with the way it is performing. Old CUBby is therefore now my 'second car': better for me, better for road safety, better for the environment etc. It's only good news.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TR4ffic]

Peugeot 107 worked out the best option insurance-wise when my son started driving and, presumably, the Citroen C1 version.

By far the cheapest to insure would have been an old VW Beetle but the thought of putting junior into a car with drum braked, no ABS, no crumple zones et al didn't seem the best way forward despite the financial incentive...