Isle of Man?

[WhoseGeneration]

There's a video on youtube of the first time the course was done in a road car at an average of 100mph (in a Rover 800

But a long time after the first on a motorcycle.
To this day no one seems to know, or has revealed, the exact spec of Tony Pond's car though.
More recent, as no doubt all here are aware, are Mark Higgins attempts.

[Zebedee]

I did my RoSPA motorcycle training on the Isle of Man:

Alpine TT offers a 5-day RoSPA bike course on the Isle of Man. The instructors are all police Class 1 and very experienced at teaching civilians how to ride safely when there are no speed restrictions. The mountain course forms part of what is a brilliant week, not to mention a great holiday It's incredibly well taught and fantastic fun.

Outside the police, where else can you learn to ride safely at unrestricted speed on British roads?

I can't recommend Alpine TT highly enough. Their 5-day IoM RoSPA course is utterly brilliant

[martine]

Zebedee - that sound like real fun - and like you say, unique. Nice one.

[GS]

To this day no one seems to know, or has revealed, the exact spec of Tony Pond's car though.

Really?

Pond says in the video that the car is a standard Rover 827 Vitesse but with slick tyres. The first attempt missed the record by about six seconds and for the second attempt he says that the exhaust was made to make a lot more noise, so that the marshals could hear him coming.

Do you have reason to disbelieve anything that he said?

I never drove the 2 litre turbo version of the Rover 800, but the 2.7 V6 could not get close to 150mph. They used to run out of revs at about 135 mph (a VERY good auto version would do about 132) so what ever was in this car it certainly was not a standard V6.

[Zebedee]

Zebedee - that sound like real fun - and like you say, unique. Nice one.

Thanks Martin. It was huge fun No pressure to go beyond your comfort zone, but all the freedom you want to ride at unrestricted speed under safe instruction. Great ice cream too! I hope to repeat the course one year soon.

Despite Bike magazine doing a big article about the Alpine TT advanced course, only a steady stream of people have done the Isle of Man course. Whereas I'd have expected this course to be over-booked by a flood of bikers; I wonder why that hasn't happened

Alpine TT also offers a 1-week RoSPA course in Spain. Perhaps it's more popular than the Isle of Man, because of Spanish food, wine and sunshine!

[WhoseGeneration]

Do you have reason to disbelieve anything that he said?

Just my cynicism as regards marketing stunts. Iirc, there was a bit of a hohah one year in the COTY awards when journalists discovered on, a Ford model, labels on suspension parts, marked COTY.
There's standard and there's blueprinted, at least and properly set up standard.

[WhoseGeneration]

Zebedee's posts have made me wonder why car AD organisations don't offer courses there.
That'd perhaps be an idea for HPC.

[Zebedee]

Having spent a week there, I can testify that there are enough roads of the right sort for a short HPC event (e.g. a long weekend or a 3-5 day trip). For people living in the south, it's no more effort to get to the IoM than Scotland.

Dave's correct that about the size of the island and the mountain course is only 37 miles long. However, I found enough interesting roads to enjoy riding all day for 5 days. It'd be worth HPC taking a look and perhaps doing an exploratory visit.

The nature of the IoM means rides had a different character: shorter runs, but higher speeds. Due to the speeds involved, however, I found it beneficial they were shorter because of the concentration demanded at speed. It's very possible to do 130-150mph on some of the Island's roads, which would be dangerous to sustain for long periods without a break.

Overtaking opportunities were never a problem! And where else in Britain can you legally overtake a police car at over 130mph (as happened during my week)?

One thing I would say is that the right instruction is cucial for safety. It's one thing doing an HPC drive on the mainland, perhaps pinching a few MPH in the NSL, but quite another to sustain Isle of Man speeds for a week without human error creeping in. That's what the Alpine TT course does so well. We were carefully instructed, with lots of breaks for ice cream or tea, gently building up speed, using police Class 1 instructors with vast experience of coaching civilians at speed. The whole thing was very enjoyable and very safe, which takes a lot of doing.

It was also a brilliant holiday, with fun tourist stuff carefully mixed into the week to ensure it felt like a holiday too. Keeping us relaxed doubtless helped safety, by giving us a chance to recharge and enjoy the island.

[Zebedee]

Perhaps I know what a typical HPC driving day is like Though you've obviously looked into the Isle of Man and concluded against it.

You're right that the IoM wouldn't be conducive to driving in long stints. However, the island gives opportunities for driving at far higher speeds than a typical HPC day, so shorter stints are beneficial because of the concentration they demand.

You're also right about overtaking opportunities being greater on a bike Maybe you should get one!

[martine]

...It takes no more concentration to drive at a very high speed than at a low speed.

Is that true? Things happen errr...more quickly at high-speed (doh!) - doesn't that demand more concentration or is it just better observation/anticipation/reactions? Perhaps we're talking about the same thing?

[Gareth]

...It takes no more concentration to drive at a very high speed than at a low speed.

Is that true? Things happen errr...more quickly at high-speed (doh!) - doesn't that demand more concentration or is it just better observation/anticipation/reactions? Perhaps we're talking about the same thing?

I'd say it's the road environment that determines the safe maximum speed and, by and large, if one is attempting to precisely link speed to vision then the concentration required to do this is the same irrespective of speed.

[jcochrane]

...It takes no more concentration to drive at a very high speed than at a low speed.

Is that true? Things happen errr...more quickly at high-speed (doh!) - doesn't that demand more concentration or is it just better observation/anticipation/reactions? Perhaps we're talking about the same thing?

I expect StressedDave will respond but I guess the key lies in his comment "If you're not expending that amount of energy in concentration in your normal everyday driving you're clearly not doing it right." In other words you should be working just as hard at keeping up concentartion at any speed. Low speed still requires high concentration as much as high speed does or at least that should be the aim.
My own experience is that things only tend to happen more quickly if my speed is too high for the situation rather than clock speed. At high speed in the right situation I find that I still seem to have a lot of time in hand so things therefore happen slowly. Provided, of course, I've got my speed right.
Also lower speeds usually means there are more hazards around so concentration must be kept up as much or arguably more as to when travelling at higher speeds where there are few or no hazards.

I find a couple of hours driving in London is more tiring than a days driving on the lovely roads around Brecon last weekend because you just can't afford to let your concentration drop for a moment.

[zadocbrown]

...It takes no more concentration to drive at a very high speed than at a low speed.

Is that true? Things happen errr...more quickly at high-speed (doh!) - doesn't that demand more concentration or is it just better observation/anticipation/reactions? Perhaps we're talking about the same thing?

I'd say it's the road environment that determines the safe maximum speed and, by and large, if one is attempting to precisely link speed to vision then the concentration required to do this is the same irrespective of speed.

I'd agree with this. It's your speed relative to conditions that is the issue, not absolute speed. Sainsbury's car parks at <10mph can give a higher workload than an unrestricted motorway at >100