Lighting up the night.

Forum for general chat, news, blogs, humour, jokes etc.

Postby revian » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:48 pm


Ancient wrote:1: Dipped lights. Steet lights are sufficient to see hazzards at speeds typical of a village, the full beam is not required and there is a greater chance of other road users such as pedestrians who I don't want to dazzle. Shining full beam lights at their windows is discourteous to the residents also.

2: Full beam unless it is going to dazzle other road users. Cat eyes and dips will not show up unlit hazards in the road.

Yup..

And One of my dads pet hates was people who parked opposite his bungalow in the shopping precinct car park... And left their headlights on 'nicely' illuminating his lounge.
Wirral
revian
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:37 pm

Postby fungus » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:07 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:Pedestrians can stop walking and look away if my headlights are causing them a problem.


Why should a pedestrian stop walking, or look away just because you havn't the courtesey to slow and dip your lights? You might well find that a pedestrian with one of those powerfull LED torches shines it in your face one day in retaliation.
Nigel ADI
IAM observer
User avatar
fungus
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:16 pm
Location: Dorset

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:39 pm


fungus wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:Pedestrians can stop walking and look away if my headlights are causing them a problem.


Why should a pedestrian stop walking, or look away just because you havn't the courtesey to slow and dip your lights? You might well find that a pedestrian with one of those powerfull LED torches shines it in your face one day in retaliation.

Should've been clearer.

What I meant was, if I notice a pedestrian further up the road walking towards me, I would dip my lights, as my main beam would be dazzling them for a while, but if a pedestrian appeared suddenly out of a sideway/around a corner quite closely to me, I wouldn't bother dipping my lights, as they will only be caught in my beam for a few seconds at the most.

Same principle as driving along and having someone pull up to a T-junction as I'm driving along the main carriageway intending to go straight on, and I was close to the junction in question. I wouldn't dip my headlights, as the driver can look in the other direction and wait until I've passed.

But honestly, if a car was driving along and left his main beam on, and I had a problem, I would just look away from the headlights, or stop walking if it was that much of a problem. I wouldn't dream of dazzling the driver with a powerful torch, just because I don't want them to drive into me because they were blinded, thanks very much!
TheInsanity1234
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: West Berkshire

Postby trashbat » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:12 pm


Sorry, but both of those things (pedestrians, junctions) strike me as discourteous, and for no real gain.
Rob - IAM F1RST, Alfa Romeo 156 JTS
trashbat
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Hampshire

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:02 pm


I can see how it seems discourteous in the pedestrian department, but thing is, my father does the dipping whilst approaching junction if there's a car waiting, and on numerous occasions, the car in the junction seems to misconstrue it as permission to go, and they pull out in front of my father, resulting in him having to brake pretty sharply.

Hence my opinion that it's not discourteous to leave the main beam on when approaching a junction, because it prevents the driver from pulling out when we're close to the junction.

Again, if I was further away from the junction and my main beam would dazzle a waiting car for a while before passing the junction, and I was reasonably confident that there's plenty of room for a car to pull out and accelerate to the limit, then of course, I would dip the lights.
TheInsanity1234
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: West Berkshire

Postby waremark » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:42 pm


Mr Insanity. I am interested to know how you have reached such well developed ideas about the way you will drive. I think it is unusual for pre-drivers to recognise the failings in the driving of their parents. Have you ever been driven by someone whose driving you admire, and perhaps would want to emulate?

As an aside, if (hopefully when) you come driving with some of us, how easy will we find it to communicate with you about what either we or you are doing? You mentioned a while ago that your driving instructor will be someone with experience of teaching deaf students. Do you know what techniques are used?

Apologies for that to anyone wanting to read about night driving. Back on topic, it occurs to me that situations where you can have thoughtful discussions on whether dipped or main beam are appropriate probably have a lot in common with situations where we can debate whether or not it is helpful to indicate - if you are thinking about it at all, you are already an advanced driver, and there is probably no right or wrong answer.
waremark
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:18 pm

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:04 pm


waremark wrote:Mr Insanity. I am interested to know how you have reached such well developed ideas about the way you will drive. I think it is unusual for pre-drivers to recognise the failings in the driving of their parents. Have you ever been driven by someone whose driving you admire, and perhaps would want to emulate?

I know it's unusual. Certainly, more or less everyone else at my school who has reached driving age, or approaching, or even passed certainly don't put the level of thinking into the whole "driving" experience that I do.
I honestly cannot recall a specific journey that has stood out in my mind, but I do recall having a driver to drive me to and from school (was a special boarding school for the deaf), and he would often drive fantastically smoothly, and yet always managed very brisk progress (Especially on the motorways! :mrgreen:) I think that's the standard I'll always aspire to, and often find my parents failing to reach those standards.

As an aside, if (hopefully when) you come driving with some of us, how easy will we find it to communicate with you about what either we or you are doing? You mentioned a while ago that your driving instructor will be someone with experience of teaching deaf students. Do you know what techniques are used?

I'll say that there won't be many issues on a one-to-one basis, when I'm able to maximise my focus on lipreading the person I'm talking to.
The instructor I've had for my under-17 lessons would do the majority of discussion with me whilst the car was stationary, and while I was on the move, we'd discussed and decided on a bunch of basic gestures that would communicate commands to me with no requirement for any actual speaking. But generally, I'd say I'm a pretty easy deaf person to communicate to, as I'm always willing to figure out ways of communication that is effective for both parties included in the conversation, whereas some of my deaf peers are a tad more stubborn about how they'll talk to people.
I don't know about what techniques are used by the instructor himself, but a few people learning with him from my school say they have no problems whatsoever with him, so I'm reasonably confident about him.

Apologies for that to anyone wanting to read about night driving. Back on topic, it occurs to me that situations where you can have thoughtful discussions on whether dipped or main beam are appropriate probably have a lot in common with situations where we can debate whether or not it is helpful to indicate - if you are thinking about it at all, you are already an advanced driver, and there is probably no right or wrong answer.

There is a wrong answer in the situation regarding main beams.
If they're dazzling someone for longer than acceptable, then they're a problem.
Same with indicators, if they're likely to confuse, then there's a problem.

But indeed, the indicating situation, my under-17 instructor informed me that every time you indicate unnecessarily, it's deemed a minor fault on the test, which did lead me to wondering how that is fair.

Because, although I accept these circumstances may be rare, but being on the driver's side, you do have a different perspective to the examiner, which may mean you might see something the examiner didn't, and that caused you to signal because you deemed it necessary, but because the examiner didn't see the thing, they might deem your indication unnecessary, and thus, mark it as a minor fault.
TheInsanity1234
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: West Berkshire

Postby waremark » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:18 pm


"But indeed, the indicating situation, my under-17 instructor informed me that every time you indicate unnecessarily, it's deemed a minor fault on the test, which did lead me to wondering how that is fair."

I am very surprised by that. I did not think that indicating when not necessary would be marked as a fault on the DSA driving test, unless it was potentially misleading or confusing. Can a current ADI clarify this?
waremark
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:18 pm

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:46 pm


waremark wrote:"But indeed, the indicating situation, my under-17 instructor informed me that every time you indicate unnecessarily, it's deemed a minor fault on the test, which did lead me to wondering how that is fair."

I am very surprised by that. I did not think that indicating when not necessary would be marked as a fault on the DSA driving test, unless it was potentially misleading or confusing. Can a current ADI clarify this?

Aye, I'm hoping I've misunderstood or something, but that was what he said.

I'd like clarification too.
TheInsanity1234
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: West Berkshire

Postby trashbat » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:01 am


TheInsanity1234 wrote:I can see how it seems discourteous in the pedestrian department, but thing is, my father does the dipping whilst approaching junction if there's a car waiting, and on numerous occasions, the car in the junction seems to misconstrue it as permission to go, and they pull out in front of my father, resulting in him having to brake pretty sharply.

Hence my opinion that it's not discourteous to leave the main beam on when approaching a junction, because it prevents the driver from pulling out when we're close to the junction,
If you're preventing them from going anywhere, it's only through force, an aggressive behaviour. The fact that you note they'll have to avert their eyes should tell you all you need to know about whether it's appropriate or not.

I'm not going to get too hung up on this because I don't know how your views will change as you put them into practice, but I think you have the theory of this quite wrong.
Rob - IAM F1RST, Alfa Romeo 156 JTS
trashbat
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Hampshire

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:03 pm


trashbat wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:I can see how it seems discourteous in the pedestrian department, but thing is, my father does the dipping whilst approaching junction if there's a car waiting, and on numerous occasions, the car in the junction seems to misconstrue it as permission to go, and they pull out in front of my father, resulting in him having to brake pretty sharply.

Hence my opinion that it's not discourteous to leave the main beam on when approaching a junction, because it prevents the driver from pulling out when we're close to the junction,
If you're preventing them from going anywhere, it's only through force, an aggressive behaviour. The fact that you note they'll have to avert their eyes should tell you all you need to know about whether it's appropriate or not.

I'm not going to get too hung up on this because I don't know how your views will change as you put them into practice, but I think you have the theory of this quite wrong.

Quite. And y'know what? I've seen a few people who make me question where they've sourced their driving licenses from.
I'd rather be forceful and prevent them from pulling out in front of me just because they misconstrued me dipping my beams as permission to go, over having a near miss just because they didn't realise I was dipping my beams to prevent them being dazzled, rather than dipping them to say "you can pull out".

I just want to emphasise that I will dip my headlights if the waiting car that I'm approaching will be dazzled for a long time, and they'd have plenty of room to pull out and accelerate anyway.

I'm talking about driving along, and getting close to a junction where a car just appeared from behind a hedge to stop at the give way line only 3 seconds before I reach the junction.
TheInsanity1234
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: West Berkshire

Postby fungus » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:42 pm


waremark wrote:"But indeed, the indicating situation, my under-17 instructor informed me that every time you indicate unnecessarily, it's deemed a minor fault on the test, which did lead me to wondering how that is fair."

I am very surprised by that. I did not think that indicating when not necessary would be marked as a fault on the DSA driving test, unless it was potentially misleading or confusing. Can a current ADI clarify this?


An unnecessary signal will not be marked as a driver error or any other fault unless it is potentially misleading and would confuse another road user. On the other hand, not signaling when another road user would benifit would be marked as a fault, driver error, serious, or dangerous, depending upon the potential outcome of the error.
Nigel ADI
IAM observer
User avatar
fungus
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:16 pm
Location: Dorset

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:39 pm


I've just written a little document about this. It agrees with most of what has been written, although I didn't specifically address street lighting. There, my opinion would be that I want to maximise the amount of light, although in areas with good street lighting, there's often no advantage to main beams, and I'll dip.

I'm afraid I agree with Trashbat - there's no excuse for blinding people just because you didn't notice them sooner, or because you believe you have some kind of priority over them.

Also see the Highway Code:

The Highway Code, Rule 114 wrote:You MUST NOT

  • use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
  • use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226).
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.
Law RVLR reg 27


Note "MUST", meaning you are guilty of an offence if you contravene this rule.
User avatar
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
 
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Swindon, Wilts




Postby trashbat » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:58 am


No need to be afraid :D

I also don't believe that people commonly take someone dipping their lights as encouragement to proceed. If they went, they were going anyway. Alright, maybe they wouldn't have gone whilst being blinded, but then you don't drive around with the horn held down or whatever else in the hope it'll deter people.

Three seconds is a long time, too. Generally I aim to be on dipped lights before I see the other car's lights directly, but anything over half a second or so is bad (usually only ever when caught out whilst changing gear)
Rob - IAM F1RST, Alfa Romeo 156 JTS
trashbat
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Hampshire

Postby michael769 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:29 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:Pedestrians can stop walking and look away if my headlights are causing them a problem.



Why should they? As Nick suggests it is a criminal offence to dazzle or discomfit other road users with your headlamps.

Anyway back to the subject.

I just want to emphasize that I will dip my headlights if the waiting car that I'm approaching will be dazzled for a long time, and they'd have plenty of room to pull out and accelerate anyway.


This also concerns me. Even a second of dazzle can destroy one's night vision for up to 2 minutes. It is really appropriate to force someone to wait for their vision to return just so save you dipping your lights.

Also consider that many are likely to retaliate or try to get your attention by using their beams, risking blinding you, not something you want whilst moving.

The lights of an oncoming care even whilst dipped, will help to light up the road ahead for you, but also mean that you can see very little (if anything) beyond that car, so there is generally nothing to be gained from keeping the beams on in any event.
Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open
Thomas Robert Dewar(1864-1930)
michael769
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:11 am
Location: Livingston

PreviousNext

Return to General Car Chat Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests