Edinburgh - (Almost) Blanket 20mph...

by **TR4ffic** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:54 pm

Anyone else spot this today?

Another victory for BRAKE? Yet more pandering to the "It's impossible to educate drivers so let's go the lowest common denominator"..?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30798323

http://edinburghcouncilmaps.info/LocalViewExt/Sites/20mphConsultation - This link/site is being a bit temperamental - might be due to the number of hits..! It's going a lot slower than 20mph.!!

I worry the slow insidious creep will turn into a full-scale rush..!

by **martine** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:04 pm

TR4ffic wrote:Anyone else spot this today?

Another victory for BRAKE? Yet more pandering to the "It's impossible to educate drivers so let's go the lowest common denominator"..?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30798323

http://edinburghcouncilmaps.info/LocalViewExt/Sites/20mphConsultation - This link/site is being a bit temperamental - might be due to the number of hits..! It's going a lot slower than 20mph.!!

I worry the slow insidious creep will turn into a full-scale rush..!

I share your pain. The widespread 20's in Bristol are due to be complete in the Spring. It's cost £2.3m to implement. The main motivation for Bristol City Council is not road safety but to encourage cycling and pedestrians to get to work/school. Mr Toad and I have been representing our IAM group on the consultancy panel which started in 2013.

It's not so much Brake as the '20's plenty' campaign group - having spoken to the founder: Rod King I wasn't impressed with his response when I asked if he'd had any advanced driver training (to perhaps gain more informed view)...he was incredulous and exclaimed: "Why on earth would I want to do that?".

by **jont** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:12 pm

martine wrote:It's not so much Brake as the '20's plenty' campaign group - having spoken to the founder: Rod King I wasn't impressed with his response when I asked if he'd had any advanced driver training (to perhaps gain more informed view)...he was incredulous and exclaimed: "Why on earth would I want to do that?".

Sounds like the South Glos councillor who when presented with the DfT information that a speed limit reduction well below what someone might expect for a section of road is likely to be counter productive, said "any speed limit reduction is a good thing".

Dragging them face first along a section of "surface dressed" road is too good for them :evil:

by **revian** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:40 pm

The whole of to he Wirral is heading that way... http://democracy.wirral.gov.uk/documents/s50003481/20MPH%20Speed%20Limits%20in%20Residential%20Areas%20Report.pdf

...and as supported by Chris Boardman....

Ian

by **exportmanuk** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:36 pm

Most of Manchester already is:

So now we are all driving at 20 mph pedestrians don't have to look as we can all stop in time. That is unless we are watching the speedo instead of the road.

New drivers in the city pass the test never having driven on a road with a speed limit greater than 30mph which means because empty bus lanes take up half the road space you never get more than 20 mph anyway. The kill them selves on the motorway because they have never driven at that speed before.

I wonder when councils will realise that if the make the main roads into and around the city flow freely the back streets would not have so many drivers trying to dodge around the congestion as it would not exist if driving down the main road is much quicker than the back streets

by **fungus** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:10 pm

We seem to have very few 20mph limits in and around Poole/Bournemouth. Wimborne has two roads that are 20mph, but they're largely ignored by drivers who continue to drive as they always have at about 25mph, slowing considerably for the double bends in West Street.

by **michael769** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:36 am

The IAM seems to be campaigning against it...

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/n ... -1-3663199

by **michael769** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:36 am

The IAM seems to be campaigning against it...

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/n ... -1-3663199

by **Kimosabe** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:03 pm

I find being routinely undertaken by bicycle riders (to whom the rules of the road are unknown and go unchecked) somewhat unnerving, because as soon as 20 turns into 30, I then have to see the unlit and well camouflaged little buggers who seem to be doing all they can to hide from anything big and heavy. Must be something to do with those human rights I suppose but how much of a leap of intelligence is it to realise that by covering a high vis vest with a large black rucksack, that said high vis becomes un vis? :roll:

by **Ancient** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:28 pm

Unlike the black-painted cars driving without lights I frequently see, or the drivers who overtake and left hook or pull back in halfway past, or who speed inappropriately,or corner on the wrong side with no idea what's coming or ...

Yes, all cyclists are definitely to blame for the KSIs and drivers are wholly innocent of idiocy and law breaking. S'funny how the stats show otherwise.

Whenever I have travelled in urban areas, cycling has been overall faster than driving; this includes London, Portsmouth, Nottingham center (despite the hills) and parts of Cardiff. I don't know Edinburgh well enough to be absolute, but would be surprised indeed if typically short urban journes were not faster overall by bike. Commuting in London I averaged 7 seconds between cars overtaking me and me overtaking them again; it is the other cars which obstruct the road, taking up a ridiculous amount of space per person travelling.

by **Kimosabe** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:13 pm

Just incase someone reads Ancient's post and misses mine I did not write or suggest

"all cyclists are definitely to blame for the KSIs and drivers are wholly innocent of idiocy and law breaking"

...because i'm a responsible cyclist who doesn't need the support of KSI's to recognise an idiot road user when I see one!
:roll:

@Ancient .... Do you disagree with cyclists using lights, high viz, reflective clothing, (standardised, routine testing and school based rider education..... :shock:

) etc as a matter of proper road use? Being as "the KSI's" clearly show them to be among the greater number of casualties or do you not think there is any link between riding around in the dark having made no effort to be seen and that forcing people to wear certain clothing impinges on their human rights of self expression/ add PC guff of choice here?

by **jcochrane** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:48 am

As others know I've been a serious cyclist all my life although age has crept up and I cycle very little these days. I am back on a turbo trainer though as part of my rehabilitation following knee surgery. Just my opinion but I do not see that cyclists should have to wear hi viz clothing. Just as pedestrians should not have to or that dark coloured cars should be banned.

In my view it is the responsibility of us motorists to be aware, alert and use our eyes and not rely on others using hi viz. (I do agree that cyclists should display lights front and rear at night as required by law.)

by **Mr Cholmondeley-Warner** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:56 pm

Agreed, John. We hark back to the days when everyone recognised that they had to comply with the Highway Code and be responsible for their actions.

by **Mr Cholmondeley-Warner** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:59 pm

Kimosabe wrote:Just incase someone reads Ancient's post and misses mine I did not write or suggest

"all cyclists are definitely to blame for the KSIs and drivers are wholly innocent of idiocy and law breaking"

But you did write "... bicycle riders (to whom the rules of the road are unknown and go unchecked)...", thus sweeping bicycle riders indiscriminately into a single, lower category of life than you. You can't expect that to go unchallenged.

by **Ancient** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:21 am

There are idiots on the roads using all methods of transport. Pedestrians need not even be compos mentis and we should continue to recognise that.

Denigrating any group of road users as a group simply does not belong on any forum designating itself as as 'Advanced Driving' (IMO) and I thank JC for his observations.

I remind the older contributors that lights on pedal cycles were a WW2 invention. The idea that all non-motorised road users are responsible for highlighting themselves with lights (and later hi-viz) is a modern invention.In the early period of motor vehicles it was understood that they were introducing a New Danger.

Bring a carriage as powerful as a modern motor vehicle to the road and you must yourself take responsibility for what

you

bring to the road. Remember that roads are originally for foot traffic. A forum of Advanced Drivers must take this into consideration and anyone who breaks out into a moton's rant againts 'cyclists' needs to remember that >80% of adult 'cyclists' are car drivers.

Edinburgh - (Almost) Blanket 20mph...

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