Let the games begin ....

[jont]

...only to do so if absolutely essential, for instance to overtake an extremely slow moving vehicle...

The most frequently poor overtaking I see is of cyclists by car drivers.

These drivers seem to have the attitude that because the bicycles are extremely slow they are not obliged to slow down and will barge past without visibility or even into oncoming traffic.

Absolutely this. Often even if the cyclist isn't actually that slowly moving The attitude of "must overtake cyclist" persists, even to the point of ignoring what else is in front of them (like a stationary queue of traffic that the cyclists is about to pass along a cycle lane )

[chrisl]

The attitude of "must overtake cyclist" persists, even to the point of ignoring what else is in front of them (like a stationary queue of traffic that the cyclists is about to pass along a cycle lane )

Accompanied by the driver screaming "get the **** over", which was one of my final experiences as a cyclist and among the reasons I no longer cycle. It seems to me that there are two types of cyclist that are hated by other road users: those that break the law, and those that don't.

Having said that, I've also done a few overtakes recently, and despite the fact there was no oncoming traffic for miles, and I could've easily overtaken them at the speed limit without breaking a sweat, (overtakee was doing about 45 in NSL), I still break the speed limit whilst on the offside of the road, just to minimise the actual time spent in the path of potential oncoming traffic.

I confess this is something I still do. One of the problems with overtaking only infrequently is lack of practice, but I do wonder how ever often I did get to practice this manoeuvre whether I would ever feel it was "safe" to apparently dawdle in the opposing lane. This may be something to do with having cut my teeth in relatively low powered cars that took some time to accelerate to the speed limit, the temptation being then to compensate by continuing to accelerate all the way past. However, I have not noticed my behaviour change very much as I have progressed onto relatively more powerful vehicles.

[Garrison]

I confess this is something I still do. One of the problems with overtaking only infrequently is lack of practice, but I do wonder how ever often I did get to practice this manoeuvre whether I would ever feel it was "safe" to apparently dawdle in the opposing lane. This may be something to do with having cut my teeth in relatively low powered cars that took some time to accelerate to the speed limit, the temptation being then to compensate by continuing to accelerate all the way past. However, I have not noticed my behaviour change very much as I have progressed onto relatively more powerful vehicles.

Practice makes perfect. I am as happy to overtake in a 1.6d estate as in a 4-500 bhp supercar.

In relatively more powerful cars, you have to be very careful in judging when you come OFF the throttle in the overtaking process. Sometimes I come off throttle even before I am level with the target while on the offside. A judgement call, but if I keep the throttle down, I will be travelling at too high a speed when I bring the vehicle back nearside to deal with the next few hazards (bends, junctions, another target vehicle, etc.). I avoid using the brakes in front of the target vehicle I have just overtaken.

[akirk]

I confess this is something I still do. One of the problems with overtaking only infrequently is lack of practice, but I do wonder how ever often I did get to practice this manoeuvre whether I would ever feel it was "safe" to apparently dawdle in the opposing lane. This may be something to do with having cut my teeth in relatively low powered cars that took some time to accelerate to the speed limit, the temptation being then to compensate by continuing to accelerate all the way past. However, I have not noticed my behaviour change very much as I have progressed onto relatively more powerful vehicles.

Practice makes perfect. I am as happy to overtake in a 1.6d estate as in a 4-500 bhp supercar.

In relatively more powerful cars, you have to be very careful in judging when you come OFF the throttle in the overtaking process. Sometimes I come off throttle even before I am level with the target while on the offside. A judgement call, but if I keep the throttle down, I will be travelling at too high a speed when I bring the vehicle back nearside to deal with the next few hazards (bends, junctions, another target vehicle, etc.). I avoid using the brakes in front of the target vehicle I have just overtaken.

Absolutely - I have seen a number of drivers of powerful cars in the cotswolds work on the principle of foot to the floor - focus on getting past, once past, they then start to think about what to do next - at which point they are travelling too fast and will have to jam on the brakes to come back in - especially if hopping up a line of traffic, these leads to several scenarios:
- they either feel that they have enough speed now to overtake the next car (increasingly dangerous if oncoming traffic)
- or they jam on the brakes causing the car they have just overtaken to slam on theirs etc. - very disruptive...
depending on the car you are driving I suspect you certainly need not accelerate after their mid point - if alongside them at all

and having been overtaken by Garrison in the 911 turbo (while not hanging around in my z3) I can confirm:
- it was a smooth professional overtake
- I didn't feel threatened by it
- the car sounds amazing when I have my roof down - I suspect it sounds better being overtaken than it does for the driver!

Alasdair

[chrisl]

Two really useful observations in those last two posts, which I will try to incorporate into my driving.

Firstly, to avoid showing brake lights to the overtaken driver in the period following the overtake, which demonstrates exemplary courtesy.

Secondly, by controlling the overtaking speed one can "pick off" a line of traffic one vehicle at a time. The alternatives being to wait for an opportunity to take them all in one go, or to bin any idea of making progress at that time.

[Garrison]

- the car sounds amazing when I have my roof down - I suspect it sounds better being overtaken than it does for the driver!

You highlighted the worst thing about that car

[akirk]

- the car sounds amazing when I have my roof down - I suspect it sounds better being overtaken than it does for the driver!

You highlighted the worst thing about that car

next time we can swap cars - just so that you can hear your car being driven!
if that works for you, we could consider it a permanent swap

Alasdair

[jont]

Firstly, to avoid showing brake lights to the overtaken driver in the period following the overtake, which demonstrates exemplary courtesy.

Yes, but don't let "mustn't use the brakes" interfere with safety if you haven't got it quite right.

[chrisl]

Firstly, to avoid showing brake lights to the overtaken driver in the period following the overtake, which demonstrates exemplary courtesy.

Yes, but don't let "mustn't use the brakes" interfere with safety if you haven't got it quite right.

Absolutely

[TheInsanity1234]

Having said that, I've also done a few overtakes recently, and despite the fact there was no oncoming traffic for miles, and I could've easily overtaken them at the speed limit without breaking a sweat, (overtakee was doing about 45 in NSL), I still break the speed limit whilst on the offside of the road, just to minimise the actual time spent in the path of potential oncoming traffic.

I confess this is something I still do. One of the problems with overtaking only infrequently is lack of practice, but I do wonder how ever often I did get to practice this manoeuvre whether I would ever feel it was "safe" to apparently dawdle in the opposing lane. This may be something to do with having cut my teeth in relatively low powered cars that took some time to accelerate to the speed limit, the temptation being then to compensate by continuing to accelerate all the way past. However, I have not noticed my behaviour change very much as I have progressed onto relatively more powerful vehicles.

When I do overtake, which is very, very infrequently, (partially due to lack of opportunities, and partially due to lack of 100% confidence) I generally keep accelerating until I'm about 3/4 past the overtakee then I find that easing off the throttle to maintenance throttle allows me to get past relatively quickly, then when the rear of my car is level with the front of the overtakee's car, I ease off slightly to drop speed while still increasing the gap behind so I don't cut in, and also don't have to use the brakes immediately.

They were back when I was very new to driving on the road...

Errr... Reality check. You are very new to driving on the road.

I'm new to driving on the road, I still am. However, I was saying within the first 2/3 weeks or so after turning 17 (yes, a couple were while I was still on L plates...), as in, very.

But I've been driving on the road since 17, so (audible noises of brain whirring) about 5 or 6 months (depending on whether you count this month as a full month or not), and about 2 or 3 months of independent driving, so I'm not 100% new to this driving lark

Now I'm fully aware that 6 months of driving experience, half of which is unaccompanied is merely a drop in the ocean compared to the years of experience that most of you have.

However, it should count for something, shouldn't it?

(I wish to add your post came across as being very condensing. I would hope you didn't intend to come across like that.)

[martine]

- the car sounds amazing when I have my roof down - I suspect it sounds better being overtaken than it does for the driver!

you could always resort to this

[akirk]

- the car sounds amazing when I have my roof down - I suspect it sounds better being overtaken than it does for the driver!

you could always resort to this

it can be arranged - I have a whole orchestra of brass instruments here...
I am sure that a trombone has many other uses in a car as well

Alasdair

[TripleS]

I agree with what you say, Mark.

Before the test, I was very impressed with Mr 1234's attitude and maturity. It would be a shame if some of that were to be lost in this post test period. Acquiring good solid experience, and the reliablity that should follow from it, takes a long time. It is still very early days.

....and that's not meant to be condensing either, so I hope nobody will get steamed up about it.

[fungus]

I'm not getting Steamed up about it Dave.

Insanity, please do not take this the wrong way. No one is intending to be condescending, and as you rightly say they have many more years, and if I may add, thousands of miles road experience over you. That's not your fault, but as Mark and Dave have observed, your posts have come over as more authoritive recently. This will be the result of your growing confidence.

You are at a particularly vulnerable period in your driving career, where your percieved abilities are higher than your actual abilities. This is not uncommon, and although you have shown an attitude more mature than your years, you need to guard against overconfidence. I'm sure that you've had a couple of wake up calls by now, and as your post suggests you are starting to learn from them.

A problem that has been recognised with young drivers, and young people in general, is that the Cerebal Cortex, the part of the brain that deals with reasoning, may not become fully developed until the age of 25years. This would account for the poor reasoning shown by many young people.

If an ADUK driving day comes up near you, go along, if only to sit in as an observer. I'm sure that the more experienced ADUKers would give a commentary explaining the reasons for their actions.

Any how, as I said, don't take offence. others are only trying to help you. And keep up the learning.

[Horse]

I'm sure that the more experienced ADUKers would give a commentary explaining the reasons for their actions.

That may not be so simple.