Wow! IAM promote HPC!

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Postby martine » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:36 pm


In today's 'Members Email' from the IAM, they promote the upcoming HPC 'Young Drivers Day' - well I'll be blowed and that's got to be a first! Well done IAM I say in recognising there is more to advanced driving than Chiswick.

That got me wondering...anyone know how many HPC members haven't been through IAM or ROSPA first? I'm guessing there will be those that have come the emergency services route but I imagine the vast majority have?
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
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Postby jcochrane » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:05 pm


The ties between the IAM and the High Performance Course go back to their origins, both exist thanks to Denise McCann of BSM.

When the High Performance Course was run by BSM you could find their advert in Milestones. Ted Clements ex Chief Examiner for the IAM was also a member of HPC.

In the early days there was an annual competition for young drivers run by the IAM/HPC. Participants would be in competition on an IAM regional basis. Those selected from the regions then spent a day with HPC being in a finals competition. The winner would be awarded the BSM High Performance Course as the prize.

Some time after BSM stopped running the High Performance Course. The idea of resurrecting a young drivers day was tried but instead of a competion for IAM members it was opened up to any one who was 26 or younger and interested in attending. The format was as it is today a mix of theory and practice.

In the last few years senior IAM staff members have attended the Young Drivers Day which has led to the IAM being interested in renewing the relationship between the two as it was in the past.

At one time the IAM was almost the exclusive feeder for the High Performance Course but now it is broader but with the majority mainly coming from IAM or RoADA.

I don't think there is any data as to where people taking the course come from but I might well be wrong.
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Postby fengpo » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:54 pm


They use the wording 'our colleagues at HPC' and 'taster to what driving at a very high level is all about'.

Could the IAM be encouraging the younger members of the advanced driving community to go to the HPC for the full course.

Christmas might come early a discount might be introduced for us younger lot. To enable us to do the full course, especially with how hard we are hit financially with the tories minimum wage nonsense for under 25's. My distaste for Cameron and before my time Thatcher is for another day. Or one of Silk's threads where the world is put to right.
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Postby waremark » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:58 am


When I was young the HP Course was very well publicised, with articles in car mags etc. I went to John Lynn while he was still running the course for BSM after reading a series of his driving articles in Motor magazine. Unlike the current course coaches, John did not recommend students to start with IAM and I would be surprised if many did. As it happens, I don't think the Observer system was well developed in those days.

Many years later I joined IAM.

Delighted by this news.
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:29 am


waremark wrote:When I was young the HP Course was very well publicised, with articles in car mags etc. I went to John Lynn while he was still running the course for BSM after reading a series of his driving articles in Motor magazine. Unlike the current course coaches, John did not recommend students to start with IAM and I would be surprised if many did. As it happens, I don't think the Observer system was well developed in those days.

Many years later I joined IAM.

Delighted by this news.


That, surely, was when the BSM HP Course was about helping folks to safely use the high performance cars of the time. The time when it first came about NSL was not 70.
Iirc, from what I have been told, in those days, an IAM examiner travelled from London to wherever to conduct a test, the candidate presumably, having had to self prepare using Roadcraft.

Then, different days, no mention of "ecodriving". Today, no mention in any motoring publication, of any of the AD courses.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby fengpo » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:58 am


Facilities cost granted, but the course could be more competitive in pricing.
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Postby akirk » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:43 am


fengpo wrote:Facilities cost granted, but the course could be more competitive in pricing.


I doubt it - when you see the amount of time they put in the cost is very reasonable :)
2.5 days / under £1,000 is cheap...
If you realise that out of that money they pay for the facilities used - have cars that are used on the course, put in probably 20-25 hours, have to pay tax / cover their holidays / cover any sickness / cover any pension / etc. - Andy even insisted on buying me lunch!

I think you need a crash course in running a business and actual costs before you start to consider that expensive...

if you then consider that they are at the top of their field in this country, it is perceptually even cheaper...

It comes across a bit as entitlement when folks start to say that they should be able to have things cheaper - anything good is worth paying for - and when you factor in that you are buying the best in the country, it is very much worth paying for...

I remember my parents paying for music lessons from a top teacher 25+ years ago, and even then (and there were no real overheads involved) he was £40 - £50 an hour. The course is c. 50%+ cheaper than that over 1/4 of a century later - it is phenomenally cheap & good value for money...

the other thing to consider is that older folks might have an advantage in earning power and ability to pay - however those under 25 have probably been paying double this for car insurance each year and seem to manage that - maybe it is a matter of priorities...

Alasdair
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Postby TripleS » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:49 am


fengpo wrote:Facilities cost granted, but the course could be more competitive in pricing.


If the course is still £1000, I don't think the cost is excessive in relation to the amount of time and expertise that is made available to clients.
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Postby jcochrane » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:57 am


fengpo wrote:Facilities cost granted, but the course could be more competitive in pricing.

"Competitive"? That probably depends to what you are comparing the cost. If to the cost of learner driving training then yes it is higher but so is the quality and level of training. I believe their costs are favourable when compared to other high performance car training. Also you are getting probably the best instructors money can buy.

Recently I drove a couple of ADIs under the RoADA training scheme and this week with Andy. There really was no comparrison in the level of training. Andy was streets ahead and of real value to me. Unlike the other two who were a waste of time. Sorry to sound a bit blunt but the 2 ADIs just did not have the depth of understanding of driving and drivers that Andy has.
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Postby waremark » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:13 am


The High Performance Course cost more 25 years ago. It is a labour of love for Clive and Andy.

Interesting that the IAM letter talks about colleagues at the HP Club. This is offered by the HP Course, with the help of graduates of the course.
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Postby fengpo » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:51 am


In complete agreement HPC is of a higher level than ADI's. I guess who is the best in the country is a matter of opinion.

Chris Gilbert surely has to be up there with the best in the country also.

Now it has been broken down for me, seems as if Andy and Clive aren't left with a lot of the course fee. Reads like value for money to me.

As stated if I want the best instruction available, I'll have to pay for the pleasure.

I don't want to come across as pedantic, just inquisitive.
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Postby akirk » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:44 am


fengpo wrote:Chris Gilbert surely has to be up there with the best in the country also.


yes, not to say that those offering the course (clive / andy) are the only ones at that level - e.g. if you want car handling - Don Palmer might be a good place to go... but they are within a pretty small group of people...

def. worth saving up to do it!

Alasdair
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Postby jcochrane » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:32 pm


fengpo wrote:In complete agreement HPC is of a higher level than ADI's. I guess who is the best in the country is a matter of opinion.

Chris Gilbert surely has to be up there with the best in the country also.

Now it has been broken down for me, seems as if Andy and Clive aren't left with a lot of the course fee. Reads like value for money to me.

As stated if I want the best instruction available, I'll have to pay for the pleasure.

I don't want to come across as pedantic, just inquisitive.


I did say "you are getting probably the best instructors money can buy." There are a few great instructors out there but they are few and far between. I have heard good things about one or two others at this level.

Personally I would never go to Chris Gilbert as he is too old school Hendon for my liking. Many years ago for a year or two my driving was influenced by that thinking. I then took stock and realised that doing what feels right and trying out ideas to see what works best is better than dogmatically following "you have to do it this way as it is the only way because I say so." Some like the old Hendon approach so it is a matter of choosing your coach carefully.

What is important is to have faith in your coach.
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Postby fengpo » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:49 pm


I know you said probably John; I was just offering an alternative coach that is considered high quality.

I know Chris can be dogmatic with speed limits etc, but that's fine with me. Getting points costs too much money.
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Postby discov8 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:19 pm


I've recently had a session with one of the HPC Gatekeepers and found it enlightning, picking up on small details that raised the subsequent drive a notch.

Value for money, I say so. Any professional in any industry with several years experience and knowledge and more importantly being able to instantly pin point solutions is invaluable. A computing course in a group will cost £500 per day but you are receiving one on one mentoring / instruction.
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