Left turn truck flattens motorbike

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Postby chrisl » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:47 am


StressedDave wrote:Mostly they do - it is within sentencing rights to order a normal or extended driving test. I used to get the DSA newsletter which listed the number of people subject to both - it was rather a large number, albeit small in population terms. Similarly the number disqualified under the two year post-pass period was scarily high.


Thank you, I feel I should have known that! I'm sure I've seen the phrase "and was ordered to take an extended driving test" before...
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Postby Silk » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:23 pm


jont wrote:Yay, more technology to go wrong...


People keep saying that but, in my experience, modern technology is surprisingly robust and very rarely fails.
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Postby sussex2 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:10 pm


It seems to me that the lorry driver could, and should, have had a clear view into the side road before starting the turn; something that is a basic responsibility.
I wonder how experienced the driver of the lorry was? Was he overawed by the task? A pressure of time perhaps?
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Postby Pontoneer » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:48 am


Gareth wrote:
chrisl wrote:I also think it would be beneficial to require those losing there licences (perhaps where the revocation is for longer than a minimum period) to retake their tests.

How about when people hold a licence but don't own a car? How long would they be permitted to not own a car before being required to retake the test?


Lots of people don't own a car but drive every day - for example people with company cars or bus/truck/van drivers may not personally own a car but equally could cover very high mileages in employers vehicles .
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Postby gannet » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:03 am


StressedDave wrote:.... but it would be very interesting to see more of the development of the incident with more video than has been uploaded.


therein lies the problem with dash cam footage people upload - it only contains what they'd like you to see.

I've said before I use a camera on my cycle - but I've never uploaded any of the footage. I simply have just in case it's needed, and for me to learn from.
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Postby sussex2 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:25 am


gannet wrote:
StressedDave wrote:.... but it would be very interesting to see more of the development of the incident with more video than has been uploaded.


therein lies the problem with dash cam footage people upload - it only contains what they'd like you to see.

I've said before I use a camera on my cycle - but I've never uploaded any of the footage. I simply have just in case it's needed, and for me to learn from.


I'm not sure if it was on this forum but there was a member who uploaded quite a few dash cam videos; mostly in order to complain about other peoples driving.
Yet, as I remember them what was uploaded spoke reams about the uploaders driving :D
Publish and be damned as they used to say.
In any case beware before you do so as it may well be used against you.
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Postby playtent » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:02 pm


There's mention of the A pillar blocking the view but yet there's a lowered slit window on the front of the door to give the driver a better low cross view directly under the mirror.
At 0.09 on the video the riders head is directly in line with it.
I would imagine that the very clever people at Iveco put it there so drivers can get some view into the turn below the level of the door.
They are seen on bin lorries as well as many other mid size lorries.
In hindsight, if the driver was not in such a rush and using a little more observation, he may have looked across the junction.
The riders head would have been at or above the height of a small car, so in reality the driver would have done the same to one of those aswell.
Last edited by playtent on Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fungus » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:35 pm


The A pillars on my Fiesta are angled in such a way that in some cicumstances it is possible to almost lose a car behind them. You can easily lose a pedestrian, cyclist, or biker behind them.

This can be made worse by the eyes natural blindspot which falls roughly 20°off centre which coresponds with the area of the A pillar, and also by the fact that the eyes move in a series of jerks, with the brain filling in the missing picture. It is therefor possible to miss a motorcyclist without them being hidden by the A pillar. See below.

http://www.slobc.org/safety/documents/r ... -guide.pdf
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Postby vonhosen » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:17 pm


fungus wrote:The A pillars on my Fiesta are angled in such a way that in some cicumstances it is possible to almost lose a car behind them. You can easily lose a pedestrian, cyclist, or biker behind them.

This can be made worse by the eyes natural blindspot which falls roughly 20°off centre which coresponds with the area of the A pillar, and also by the fact that the eyes move in a series of jerks, with the brain filling in the missing picture. It is therefor possible to miss a motorcyclist without them being hidden by the A pillar. See below.

http://www.slobc.org/safety/documents/r ... -guide.pdf


And if you rush & go faster than you should into a hazard then it's more likely to happen.
If you don't rush, approach & complete the manoeuvre at an appropriate speed you're less likely to.
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Postby Ancient » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:44 pm


The other thing you can see through the truck windscreen for several seconds is the right-hand side window. To see around the A-pillars in my Skoda, I frequently need to lean forward and look across. Of course this truck design may have a steering wheel that pins the driver to the back of his seat?

Edit to add: The motorcyclist is clearly not the one approaching too quickly, the video starts before the truck comes into sight (at +3 seconds) and by the time the truck starts to turn (having had time to look into the road and see the m'cyclist over the railings through his side window) he is three hazard line lengths from the give-way and almost stationary.
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Postby revian » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:24 pm


FWIW

1. I cannot see why the truck driver could not have seen him out of his left hand window. There's plenty of space to do so as he approaches the turn. Not enough time = too fast? The A pillar only comes into it in the turn surely? If he couldn't see it was clear why did he turn in at all? If he couldn't see that condemns him to only ever turning right :?

2. I wonder... Why did the biker look so sharply to his right before getting to the junction? It didn't give him a better view of it. And he took his eyes off the junction/lorry.

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Postby vonhosen » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:34 pm


revian wrote:FWIW

1. I cannot see why the truck driver could not have seen him out of his left hand window. There's plenty of space to do so as he approaches the turn. Not enough time = too fast? The A pillar only comes into it in the turn surely? If he couldn't see it was clear why did he turn in at all? If he couldn't see that condemns him to only ever turning right :?


Because he wasn't looking out the window. he was concentrating on the view in the nearside mirror for the woman with the pushchair he was trying to beat.

revian wrote:2. I wonder... Why did the biker look so sharply to his right before getting to the junction? It didn't give him a better view of it. And he took his eyes off the junction/lorry.

Ian


'Checking out' the woman walking on the footway?
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Postby revian » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:54 pm


Good Afternoon....

The woman? Maybe.. But camera shot is more of the wall or the street name... But he's leaving it so unlikely to need to read it.
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Postby MGF » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:42 pm


It doesn't follow from the fact the driver could have seen the bike if he happened to be looking in a particular direction at a particular point in time that he should have done the same.

Was he sufficiently careful to avoid the accident? Probably not. Was he driving reasonably carefully? I think a lot of people outside of the world of advanced driving may well think he was.

I also don't think that standards of driving have declined from some imaginary time in the past. I think relative standards decline because we become safer drivers over time.

Interesting post from Ancient which suggests we impose a standard of care on the driver and the vehicle's operator sufficient to make accidents as avoidable as one might expect on a construction site.
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