Diesel Cheaper than Petrol

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Postby jont » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:00 am


Garrison wrote:Our old family Land Cruisers Amazon 4.0 petrol in-line 6 lasted 325,000 km in Australia in throughout the 90s and 00s before we sold it. As far as I know, the car is still working.

With much simpler electronics, built on older process technologies [talking about silicon manufacturing] and with far fewer interconnections between the systems.

I look at the amount of electronics in my boss's M-class, and really wouldn't want to risk that out of warranty :shock:

/and with you driving, I expect the outlander will still manage sub-20mpg :P
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Postby Garrison » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:46 pm


jont wrote:I look at the amount of electronics in my boss's M-class, and really wouldn't want to risk that out of warranty :shock:

/and with you driving, I expect the outlander will still manage sub-20mpg :P

Definitely not M-class. We are thinking of the old battleship-style 8-seat Land Cruiser or G-class which I thought still run the old ladder chassis and marine-style diesel engines.

With the low fuel economy, I think it is more to do with the car. I averaged 22.5mpg in my 911 Turbo at last weekend's ADUK day and I wasn't hanging around. I'm sure I wold get a real world 80-ish mpg out of the Outlander if I plug-in overnight and at work everyday. It should run through central London on electric-only.
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:10 pm


StressedDave wrote:the whole of the railfreight industry runs on diesel and has a sufficiently large deficit in the number of locomotives that they are renting extras from the heritage providers - imagine just how polluting a 40 year old diesel can be.


Er, indeed, and the reason they're renting old ones rather than buying new ones is because of new Euro emission controls that make conforming locomotives prohibitively expensive to build. There just aren't affordable powerplants that conform to the regulations. Some companies have got round this by re-ordering more of a class they already own, but they're not allowed to buy a new type that doesn't conform to the latest emission standards, and soon, they won't be allowed this loophole either. </railway nerd>
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Postby revian » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:11 pm


Garrison wrote:Charge will be £12.50 per day on top of the congestion charge of £10 per day. So £22.50 a day to drive to work ... or £5,400 per year if you work 5 days a week and 48 weeks a year.

Gulp! :(

One son lives in Bromley. I might have to stop seeing him if it spreads... :!:

Back in the early 70s (when a leaf on the line regularly stopped the train) I used to drive in to High Holborn and park under the office for free. The only trouble was all the others on the road.... Could take 3 hours from Northumberland Heath to work...

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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:57 pm


Diesel in terms of pounds per litre will never be cheaper than petrol.

If you're also factoring in the complicated business of tax, fuel economy, useage etc etc, then indeed, a diesel may be cheaper than a petrol.
Key word being "may".

With regards to the congestion charge, the best way to cut pollution would be to encourage all the buses/taxis to migrate to electric only fleets and effectively ban any mode of transport which produces any more CO2 than a human being.

That'll transfer pollution to the countryside where the power stations are! Great!
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Postby Carbon Based » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:20 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:That'll transfer pollution to the countryside where the power stations are! Great!


Not if there was a more sensible expansion of solar, wind (offshore if you must), tidal and nuclear power.
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Postby trashbat » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:21 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:Diesel in terms of pounds per litre will never be cheaper than petrol.

It already is - hence the thread.
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Postby revian » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:43 pm


jont wrote:
revian wrote:I'm on my second diesel (2008 with DPF) and bought it as a long-into-retirement car. Will I be taxed off the road as well as out of the city?

Nah, it'll break down in a terminally expensive way long before you have to worry about that.

/seriously, does anyone expect cars bought within the last few years to still be cost effective to run by the time they are 15 or 20 years old?

You might be right about 'terminally expensive' though I bought a second hand (timing chain) BMW on the bomb-proof basis.... Then discovered the N47 engine...

But not cost effective? There's a lot of factors at play in that. Costing in the buying costs I wonder how many cars are ever 'cost effective'. You can get a lot of repairs done for the difference between selling and buying costs... Not that it's stopped me changing too often in the past. Circumstances decide otherwise now I'm older... If only a tad wiser!

How many car changes are really about overall costs?

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Postby Silk » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:27 pm


trashbat wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:Diesel in terms of pounds per litre will never be cheaper than petrol.

It already is - hence the thread.


In spite of the thread and it being all over the news, I've yet to see a garage where diesel is cheaper than petrol. The best I've seen so far is my local BP where they're now the same.
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Postby Silk » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:36 pm


jont wrote:/seriously, does anyone expect cars bought within the last few years to still be cost effective to run by the time they are 15 or 20 years old?


The reality is, cars are getting more reliable, not less. You make it sound as if old cars regularly made it to 15 or 20 years old and could be keep running with nothing more than a bit of know-how and a 13 mil spanner.
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Postby trashbat » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:29 pm


Silk wrote:
trashbat wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:Diesel in terms of pounds per litre will never be cheaper than petrol.

It already is - hence the thread.


In spite of the thread and it being all over the news, I've yet to see a garage where diesel is cheaper than petrol. The best I've seen so far is my local BP where they're now the same.
I saw one today.
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Postby akirk » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:58 pm


Silk wrote:
jont wrote:/seriously, does anyone expect cars bought within the last few years to still be cost effective to run by the time they are 15 or 20 years old?


The reality is, cars are getting more reliable, not less. You make it sound as if old cars regularly made it to 15 or 20 years old and could be keep running with nothing more than a bit of know-how and a 13 mil spanner.


they are probably more reliable within the timescale that most keep them for...
but over time? we don't know yet...
having just bought a 43 year old MGB GT I know that virtually any garage in the country can strip it down and rebuild it...
looking at my skoda octavia scout (brand new a few weeks ago) - will we have the knowledge in 40 years time, or even 20 - if the components are no longer made who will have the skill to rebuild / reprogramme the computers - how many computers does it have anyway? Will the radio's bluetooth system talk to phones of 20 years hence? will its GPS still work? etc. etc. - unlikely... I will lease, but not buy any more new cars... I think that after cars of c. 2001ish we will have issues...

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Postby trashbat » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:09 pm


It'll be fine. Half the stuff you don't need - who cares if the GPS works, it certainly doesn't in your MGB - and the chance of exotic component failure is balanced against the fact that they built a shitload of the things, not just the particular car but all the other ones that share that part. Plus who knows where fabrication and replication will be - 3D print your own in a few years?

I think peak reliability has been and gone - shortly after OBD-II but before direct injection or the increase in emissions kit - but it doesn't mean every car since is an obsolescence timebomb.

It'll probably still rust through the floor, eat its gearbox or put a rod through the block before the computers kill it.
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:22 pm


Silk wrote:You make it sound as if old cars regularly made it to 15 or 20 years old and could be keep running with nothing more than a bit of know-how and a 13 mil spanner.

1/2" AF, please! None of your new-fangled metric bollox thanks :mrgreen:
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Postby akirk » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:29 pm


trashbat wrote:It'll be fine. Half the stuff you don't need - who cares if the GPS works, it certainly doesn't in your MGB - and the chance of exotic component failure is balanced against the fact that they built a shitload of the things, not just the particular car but all the other ones that share that part. Plus who knows where fabrication and replication will be - 3D print your own in a few years?


maybe... but even recently when trying to get an electric seat control module fixed for a classic RR, there was only one place in the country prepared / able to do it - on the Isle of Wight... working in IT, I suspect that there are issues ahead, and when it is something like the board controlling seat adjustment it isn't easy to ignore it - you need it working... maybe we will be able to print it ourselves, but if we lose the knowledge we will lose some of that ability

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