IAM/ROSPA test

[Kimosabe]

Is there now, or planned to be, any element of self-analysis, comparing the candidate's opinion of the drive against the examiner's?

My IAM examiner gave me the opportunity to discuss his findings at the end of my test, as did the excellent RoSPA examiner, with whom I went for an 'experienced driver assessment' yesterday. Is this not what happens usually?

Not discuss - as (again, we're in semantic of individual words) they to me implies justification.

Instead, I'm thinking that the debrief should start with the candidate considering their own performance, 'go to woe' - and having it 'calibrated' against the examiner's views.

'Discuss' in the way I meant it - 'to explore in greater detail' and not in order to argue with or attempt to change the examiner's findings.

The post-drive debrief began with a 'so how was that for you?' type of opening question and me being me, how it was for me, was never going to be as good as I would have liked it to have been. I sometimes put myself in the 'could do better' category and I'm not at a standard that I am happy with yet, so I won't be taking any tests until I am.

His style of commenting and supporting suited me perfectly and one area for future work is overtaking or should I say, creating greater potential for overtaking by setting myself up, for example, when entering bends with a view to what could happen on the straight after a bend.
I received my paper report and certificate on Friday and i'm very grateful for all the comments made with regard to areas for further development. The Experienced Driver Assessment was a very worthwhile thing to do.

So where next? As I say, i've joined RoADAR and i'm awaiting contact regarding observed drives. It looks like the IAM-RoADAR-HPC well-worn path of progress, is the one i'm on and all is good.

[discov8]

I am new to this forum, so forgive me for adding my pennies worth, as an examiner I wAnt the drive to be, amongst other things....

Safe
Systematic
Smooth
Speed, progress, whatever you like to call it.

I prefer 'sparkle' I want to see an associate taking full advantage of the ambient speed limit (if the conditions allow) if we are in a 50mph limit and the road, traffic and weather conditions allow, I want to see a driver doing 50 and not 45mph. As you are leaving a restricted limit and entering a National, I want to see firm acceleration as you cross the line, again if conditions allow. It is after all an Advanced Test!!
Having been examining for over 5 years, the most common issue is 'lack of progress'

Hope that helps?

I recognize the 4S's and "sparkle"terminology having just sat with you, I think it is you, last Friday morning (MGTF). Pleased you've found the forum.

[revian]

, I want to see firm acceleration as you cross the line, again if conditions allow. It is after all an Advanced Test!!
Having been examining for over 5 years, the most common issue is 'lack of progress'

To clarify... Are you saying you want to see 'progress' for the whole of the test? I recall that for my Rospa test 2/3 years ago it was required only when the examiner asked for it. I wasn't pulled up for not doing it all the time. Have I got it wrong?

Ian

[Gareth]

Are you saying you want to see 'progress' for the whole of the test? I recall that for my Rospa test 2/3 years ago it was required only when the examiner asked for it. I wasn't pulled up for not doing it all the time.

Why not do it for the entire test?

[jcochrane]

To clarify... Are you saying you want to see 'progress' for the whole of the test? I recall that for my Rospa test 2/3 years ago it was required only when the examiner asked for it. I wasn't pulled up for not doing it all the time. Have I got it wrong?

Ian

Haven't heard that before. Does not happen on any IAM test that I know of, progress is all the time normally, and I would be surprised if it were normal on a RoADA test. I have little involvement with RoADA so would be interested from some one who is.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

In my limited experience, yes, all the time. You can't doze for 3/4 of the test and just show "progress" when you think it appropriate. My examiner said to me on my first test almost word for word what Oscarmark said earlier - safe, legal, systematic and progressive. His words, from memory, were:

"If the speed limit says 60 miles per hour, then let's do 60 miles per hour".

We got on just fine

In subsequent tests he's revised that position slightly at times, like the time I followed a learner for a few miles, showing I was looking for opportunities to overtake, and he said I should have done so from further back. I think now, I would be able to show I was looking, while putting less pressure on the target vehicle, but that was then, and this is now.

[Oscarmark]

Why would you not 'make progress' when you are able to do so, for the whole test? I have never heard of an examiner 'ask' for progress!! If it is safe, legal and appropriate ...do it!!! Remember this is an Advanced Test. As I have said, the single most common criticism is lack of progress. It is not about racing around, but if you do not feel comfortable driving up to 60mph on an unrestricted road or 70mph on a dual carriageway, perhaps advanced driving is not for you.

As an examiner I want to see that 'sparkle' in a drive that comes from safe use of speed, without of course exceeding the posted limits.

[martine]

Why would you not 'make progress' when you are able to do so, for the whole test? I have never heard of an examiner 'ask' for progress!! If it is safe, legal and appropriate ...do it!!! Remember this is an Advanced Test. As I have said, the single most common criticism is lack of progress. It is not about racing around, but if you do not feel comfortable driving up to 60mph on an unrestricted road or 70mph on a dual carriageway, perhaps advanced driving is not for you.

As an examiner I want to see that 'sparkle' in a drive that comes from safe use of speed, without of course exceeding the posted limits.

That's my understanding from our local examiners. It's not a requirement to make this level of progress when you're driving around normally (that's entirely up to you) but this is a test and the examiner wants to see you are capable of reading the road correctly and making a good judgement of the maximum speed while keeping safe. One talks about the associate imagining they need to get somewhere as quickly as possible while remaining legal and safe (e.g. urgent appointment at customer or hospital).

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

It's not a requirement to make this level of progress when you're driving around normally (that's entirely up to you) but this is a test ...

And therein lies the worst aspect of "test-passing" or "badge-collecting". Why on earth would you drive one way for a test, then completely change your approach at other times?

I tell my associates I'm giving them a system to drive to for the rest of their lives, that will change their driving for ever. Ambitious, maybe, but otherwise, what's the point?

Making progress (with all the caveats above - safely, legally, smoothly) ensures you are contributing to keeping traffic flowing, as well as keeping your own skills sharp, and staying alert. I do it all the time.

[martine]

It's not a requirement to make this level of progress when you're driving around normally (that's entirely up to you) but this is a test ...

And therein lies the worst aspect of "test-passing" or "badge-collecting". Why on earth would you drive one way for a test, then completely change your approach at other times?

I tell my associates I'm giving them a system to drive to for the rest of their lives, that will change their driving for ever. Ambitious, maybe, but otherwise, what's the point?

Making progress (with all the caveats above - safely, legally, smoothly) ensures you are contributing to keeping traffic flowing, as well as keeping your own skills sharp, and staying alert. I do it all the time.

I know what you mean but you might be tired and want to increase your safety margins, car might be ill, have a nervous passenger, short on fuel and going for max. economy etc etc.

In addition I have different driving modes depending on the situation: IAM demo, solo, learner demo, ADUK driving day, wife on-board for example.

[Horse]

It's not a requirement to make this level of progress when you're driving around normally (that's entirely up to you) but this is a test ...

And therein lies the worst aspect of "test-passing" or "badge-collecting". Why on earth would you drive one way for a test, then completely change your approach at other times?

I tell my associates I'm giving them a system to drive to for the rest of their lives, that will change their driving for ever. Ambitious, maybe, but otherwise, what's the point?

Making progress (with all the caveats above - safely, legally, smoothly) ensures you are contributing to keeping traffic flowing, as well as keeping your own skills sharp, and staying alert. I do it all the time.

I think we did this very recently

Here's a few examples from me of how my driving might vary:
- On my own, out for fun, when I'll actively look for overtakes
- Carrying passengers, especially those who get travel sick
- Carrying passengers, late at night when they're dozing
- Going for fuel economy (sometimes I play that game with the dozing passengers on board )
- Trying for absolute smoothness; obviously a lot of that is to do with the quality of transitions, travelling faster means braking either earlier or more firmly
- Playing 'no brakes'

I do all of those some of the time

[Kimosabe]

It's not a requirement to make this level of progress when you're driving around normally (that's entirely up to you) but this is a test ...

And therein lies the worst aspect of "test-passing" or "badge-collecting". Why on earth would you drive one way for a test, then completely change your approach at other times?

I tell my associates I'm giving them a system to drive to for the rest of their lives, that will change their driving for ever. Ambitious, maybe, but otherwise, what's the point?

Making progress (with all the caveats above - safely, legally, smoothly) ensures you are contributing to keeping traffic flowing, as well as keeping your own skills sharp, and staying alert. I do it all the time.

I think we did this very recently

Here's a few examples from me of how my driving might vary:
- On my own, out for fun, when I'll actively look for overtakes
- Carrying passengers, especially those who get travel sick
- Carrying passengers, late at night when they're dozing
- Going for fuel economy (sometimes I play that game with the dozing passengers on board )
- Trying for absolute smoothness; obviously a lot of that is to do with the quality of transitions, travelling faster means braking either earlier or more firmly
- Playing 'no brakes'

I do all of those some of the time

Agree with all of the above.

I usually play 'no brakes' when driving my 4x4, because trying to stop it without a little nose dip at the end, is often impossible. But that doesn't fit well with 'making good progress', because doing this often causes me to hang back (crawling doesn't sit well with me unless i'm not impeding someone else behind), while using good timing to be at a safe following distance once the traffic starts moving again. Still, it is just a little game after all.

Speaking of games, have you heard of 'packs'? People often like to herd together in packs when driving and this is most obvious on M'ways. You'll see bunches of cars that have caterpillared together into bunches, while all hustling for the prime spot at the front. So what I try to do, is to sit between the pack infront and the one behind, in my very own space. Okay, it doesn't lend well to making progress but it does make for a great excuse to practice a deeper form of observation and planning....well it's 'deep' for me any ways.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

OK, to clarify, I may drive slightly differently with passengers in the car (depending on who they are), but the general principle applies. Get moving, don't hold people up, take opportunities if they arise, above all, keep the wheels moving. It's part of a philosophy now, and just "natural".

[revian]

Thanks for all the comments...

I took this guideline....

"depending on the circumstances. Progress / Restraint / Consideration Advanced drivers demonstrate an ability to drive at a speed within the legal limit that is safe for the situation. The Examiner will be looking for you to drive in a manner that is safe, smooth, systematic and making progress where it is appropriate whilst also showing consideration for others. It is however, possible to be too considerate and thereby adversely affect your own opportunities to make progress during the test. In order to achieve the correct balance it is vital that you concentrate fully at all times."

...to mean that it's wasn't looked for during the whole drive. So I may have mis-set my own aim. Looking at the written report (better than memory!) he commented that I had some reluctance to make progress. In normal life I don't. The speed limit is what I'm normally at but I don't feel the urgency to drive like that all the time.

Getting from A to B in a safe and easy way is sometimes all one needs. That's just different from being as quick as one can be. Martin/kimosabe mentioned styles for occasions. That seemed 'advanced' to me... The ability to drive in a variety of ways.

I'm hoping to sort out an IAM course/test after the summer so, thank you, I'll bear the collective advice in mind. (No reachable Rospa here). I don't think anyone reasonably is local to me else I'd be asking for a 'look at my driving' for more focussed advice.

Thanks

Ian

[Oscarmark]

It is up to you how you drive in any set of circumstances ( so long as it is legal ) however of you want to pass the IAM or ROSPA Advanced Test, you need to demonstrate that drive up to the legal posted limit if traffic, weather and road conditions allow. I am afraid if you do not do that you will be unsuccessful. I had to fail a driver a few weeks ago who announced during "Commentary" whilst driving on M25... " I am comfortable at 60mph, so I am going to stay in this lane" It was a rare occasion when the M25 was flowing freely..... progress was hampered and we became 'boxed in' by Goods Vehicles with speed limiters fitted!

Good luck with your test in the summer!