Clutchless Gearchanges

[SammyTheSnake]

Ok, so I ride a motorbike (DA 3 years ago) and habitually use clutchless gearshifts on the way up the box, though I'll use the clutch on the way down, for pulling away and when I don't think the clutchless option will provide me with a sufficiently smooth gearchange.

I wanted to get feedback on what my esteemed colleagues thought of the practice?

Is it something that only makes sense with a sequential gearbox like on my motorbike? Is it just a bad idea full stop (and why)? Are there right times and wrong times (and when are they)? etc. etc.

I look forward to finding out what people think

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[Lynne]

After reading about it some while back I practiced it til I got it to work. Once I could manage it easily I didn't bother anymore!

I know I did it 3>4. Can't remember if I tried any other gears now it was too long ago.

Lynne

[ScoobyChris]

Not something I've ever felt the need to try or use. What are the pros and cons of it over using the clutch?

Chris

[James]

In a car? How?

[TripleS]

Not something I've ever felt the need to try or use. What are the pros and cons of it over using the clutch?

Chris

It is a useful technique to have available in case you were ever to have failure of the clutch release mechanism, e.g. the clutch hydraulic system or the release bearing.

If you try clutchless gear changes clumsily and make a real mess of it, you could do some considerable damage to gearbox internals.

If you wish to do it at all I would suggest you approach it carefully, under guidance from somebody who knows how to do it properly.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[crr003]

....If you try clutchless gear changes clumsily and make a real mess of it, you could do some considerable damage to gearbox internals.

If you wish to do it at all I would suggest you approach it carefully, under guidance from somebody who knows how to do it properly.

Or practice in a hire car...........

[TripleS]

....If you try clutchless gear changes clumsily and make a real mess of it, you could do some considerable damage to gearbox internals.

If you wish to do it at all I would suggest you approach it carefully, under guidance from somebody who knows how to do it properly.

Or practice in a hire car...........

The more I read in these forums the less I want to be in the hire car business!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[PeteG]

I intend to purchase one of those "drive it like you stole it" stickers, tippex the "stole" out and scrawl in "hired".

[James]

No really how? (Thinks of crunching gears in a getaway situation).

[ScoobyChris]

You just change gear without using the clutch I think you can just slot it in at higher revs going up the box, but going down the box you need to blip the throttle to bring the revs up.

I don't think it has any real advantages in road driving these days now that all cars have syncromeshes, but I can believe it's useful in the cases that Dave outlines. Could have done with knowing about it when the clutch pedal on my 3 1/2 year old Fabia snapped as I approached a roundabout

Chris

[spankthecrumpet]

It's not that difficult if you know how to match revs (and if you're on this forum, you do...) - easiest way to do it is to apply a little bit of pressure on the lever - it will just slot in as if by magic when the right revs are reached.

[Gareth]

To move out of gear and into neutral you generally need to come off the power slightly.

To get into the chosen gear you need to be fairly precise about synchronising engine speed to road speed for the chosen gear.

In both directions, it is like double declutching or sustained revs gear changes, but without using the clutch. Double declutching is sometimes the more useful basis, especially if you use it on both up- and down-shifts, because then you can use the same timing for the gear change sequence.

Get it right and it goes in like a hot knife through butter. Get it wrong and you probably don't get it in gear.

Just like learning to change gear smoothly, the easiest gears to start practicing are typcially 3rd and 4th.

Its a very useful test to find whether you really do synchronise engine speed to road speed when changing gear - something that many advanced drivers claim but can't actually manage for real.

Mainly useful for when the clutch doesn't work, but I have heard tell of an ADI round Newbury way who did smooth clutchless gear changes during his advanced driving test

[Tav]

I might need to make use of this when the clutch release bearing finally packs in on my Toyota....if it ever does!

[ScoobyChris]

Mainly useful for when the clutch doesn't work, but I have heard tell of an ADI round Newbury way who did smooth clutchless gear changes during his advanced driving test

The chap I mentioned to you in the HPC does clutchless gear changes as he does 50k miles a year in a generously remapped diesel and doesn't want to have to have a new clutch every year

Something I'll have to try next time I go out for a drive

Chris

[Gareth]

No really how? (Thinks of crunching gears in a getaway situation).

Last time I needed to use this technique was a couple of Novembers ago, after the garage had done some work on the car the previous day and I woke up to find the clutch wouldn't disengage I characterised the biting point as somewhere below the floor, and pumping the clutch pedal didn't make any beneficial difference.

This was annoying because it was some miles from the garage, and there were a number of busy junctions to negotiate along the way, during the morning busy period.

First problem was to get the engine warmed up, so I started the car with the gearbox in neutral and let it idle. Probably annoyed the people still trying to sleep in the surrounding tents and caravans

Once it had warmed up, I stopped the engine, selected 1st gear, and started it again. Because it was properly warm by then, the engine started easily and immediately the car lurched forward.

This made going over the very severe speed bumps at the campsite a PITA, not least because the exhaust scrapes if the car is moving faster than a snail. This turned out to be a series of starts and stops, getting the car to move as slowly as possible over the speed bumps.

Once at the main road, it was just a question of waiting for no traffic, then starting the car with the now familar lurch, and continue driving down the road.

Turning right onto the busy main road was more of a trial - it was a question of timing, with almost no room for error. Once I restarted the engine, I really had to be able to go straight away. Scary

Roundabouts weren't too much trouble, as I held back more than usual on approach, until there was enough of a gap to slot in. I think I had to stop only one time at a roundabout, and was fortunate that I was able to use the left lane, (since invariably the left lane on an otherwise busy roundabout is the least busy part).

I finally got to the garage, and they gave me a loan car and I went off to work

One of the tricky aspects to all this was the approach to possible stop situations. What I did was change down to 2nd gear much earlier than usual, and slowed down a lot earlier as well. If I had to stop, I had to remember to pull it out of gear, because although the brakes would stall the engine, my muscle memory was caught out by the engine still trying to move the car forward when I had expected it to have stopped.