Overtaking on wide Single Carriageways

[theyoungen]

Spotted these photos on a website and wondered about the legality of some of the manouvers in light of the oncoming traffic. However the roads are very wide...

I've never driven on a road quite like those shown, let alone had to overtake on one, but I just wondered what you all thought.

(I've numbered them for convienience when discussing)

1


2


3


4


5


6


7

[ipsg.glf]

I was always taught never to be the meat in the sandwich. I would overtake on some of those roads as long as:

I could overtake 1 (or possibly 2) cars at a time,
I don't make it 3 cars across at any point, and
I have an escape route planned.

So out of those 7 pics, I would never be the driver overtaking.

[theyoungen]

I tend to agree. 99 times out of 100 you'd be fine, but there's nowhere to go the other time.

Although no cars appear to be taking evasive action due to the overtakers, they just don't seem 'right' to me.

[ipsg.glf]

You only need one of the drivers to be momentarily distracted (mobile rings, or kids arguing) and you have a potentiall head-on!

[vonhosen]

I am prepared to go 3 abreast for short periods when vision is excellent, the road is exceptionally wide & I am happy that vehicles both away & towards are steady with nowhere anyone can hide.

I certainly would not towards losses of vision or where lurkers could be.

[Nigel]

From what little we can see in those photographs I wouldn't have a problem carrying out an overtake.

Those type of road layouts are very common in this part of the world and seem to stem from two sources :

1) where the "suicide" middle lane has been removed.

2) where the road was built and approved as either four lane or dual carrageway, and the local greenies have managed to block it at the last minute.

I've seen those pictures used in an IAM presentation where the speaker was advising not to overtake...led to some interesting discussion

[TripleS]

Well some of those certainly look like reasonable and legitimate overtaking opportunities to me, unless you are from the "nothing must ever go wrong at any time for any reason whatsoever" camp.

I'm all in favour of being adequately cautious, but you can go too far with that.

That, as usual, is just IMHO.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Gareth]

I find it interesting how the road has been artificially narrowed by the paint lines close to the verges. I've noticed this is often a prelude to a lowered speed limit. One other thing that annoys me about the lines painted close to the verge is that they're hardly ever marked as cycle lanes. You'd think that they could at least make a virtue out of this kind of annoyance.

[Nigel]

Good point about the cycle lanes Gareth...if only there was some sort of requirement for cyclists to actually be in them, at the moment its just a waste of money on red tarmac & paint.

[stv]

Some photos give me some concern, though of course photos cannot give an idea of relative speeds, or actions of all vehicles.

The Discovery is overtaking on 'get over' arrows towards a hatched area, which could be for a turn area for a junction? But looking at other photo it could just be the start of the hatched centre line?

Of more concern is the green van is starting an overtake past 5 cars which are bunched up behind HGV, so is relying on one complete overtake, or having to force his/her way in if more oncoming cars are overtaking behind the one at the end of the visible straight. Poor driving by all involved?

[Nigel]

He's ok with the KA and Zafira, I'd be watching the punto closely, the mpv seems awfully close to the lorry too, but...its only a photo....I also can't quite make out if two vehicles are side by side at the very top of that picture, but I'd certainly take the KA & Zafira...and see how it pans out after that.

I'd also leave my right indicator on during the overtake.

[TripleS]

He's ok with the KA and Zafira, I'd be watching the punto closely, the mpv seems awfully close to the lorry too, but...its only a photo....I also can't quite make out if two vehicles are side by side at the very top of that picture, but I'd certainly take the KA & Zafira...and see how it pans out after that.

I'd also leave my right indicator on during the overtake.

....and would the use of dipped headlights by the overtaker be beneficial? If used, they would tend to devalue the use of the right indicator by making that less easy to see.

On reflection I'm inclined to think that dipped headlights might be the best aid to doing safe overtakes in such situations.

Apart from that, it would seem relevant to use moderate speed differentials and have a gap to slot into in case of need.

....but at the end of the day if we want total freedom from the risk of being involved in road accidents, we have to keep away from roads and vehicles.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[James]

Photo 1 and the car in the background of 5 seem legitimate as their vision is good and they are not actually putting themselves 3 abreast. Some of the others where the vans are driving through the middle look wrong to me. If the middle of the road is a free for all, then who is to say someone from the opposing carriageway won't use it as well further down the road, coming towards you. I think you are putting too much trust in those other road users not to come out and try a similar manouvre.

[7db]

Good point about the cycle lanes Gareth...if only there was some sort of requirement for cyclists to actually be in them, at the moment its just a waste of money on red tarmac & paint.

A cyclist was recently successfully prosecuted for not using a cycle lane when he could have done and was holding up traffic on an NSL road.

All those overtakes look legal to me. Safety can't be judged from the photo. The one overtaking into the ghost island is the one that looks dodgiest.

[Nigel]

Yes I saw the post about the lycra twit on traffic answers, wasn't it going to appeal though ?