BBC 1 Traffic Cops 8th Nov (8:00pm?)

[SamD]

Thought the program was very interesting last night. Showed how Hampshire police dealt with a fatal on the M3, (was this a repeat?)

One of the key aspects was the Family Liaison Officer (one of the traffic police on scene) having to deliver the terrible news to the next of kin. Very hard viewing.

The interesting thing was the way in which the officer conducted himself after this very difficult and painful task. He noted how its all (regrettably) part of the job, but was clearly repressing some strong emotions. Having to return to the scene, (a now gridlocked M3), seemingly straight away, he gave a very angry dressing down to a woman using her mobile phone in the traffic (-moving but probably 1st gear stuff) through his car window. Then he booked a driver travelling sheepishly down the hard shoulder. Clearly simmering, the officer described what he had just been doing and how the drivers actions were obstructive to the emergency services. 3 points followed.

I have certainly never sought to utilise the hard shoulder inappropriately. I have probably used my handheld mobile occasionally in stationary m/way traffic if my impending lateness is important (childcare/really important NHS work) . I tend to think you deserve what you get on the whole though.

However I got the feeling that if the officer's boss had been watching he might have something to say about the way he conducted himself. He was very obviously upset and angry and allowed this to alter the way he intervened in two separate offences. Very confrontational, he was punishing these people for what he had seen and experienced that day.
Its very understandable, its arguably fair enough, and they were committing offences, but should an officer be allowed to get straight back on duty after such an ordeal? We have rules (NHS) about dealing with physical violence and needing time to settle a bit before returning to decision making. Is this the case and the program makers missed something?

[Stephen]

I taped and watched the programme it was a good publicity point for getting across the mobile phone message,yes he was upset just like most officers BFLO or not at the tragic waste of life, and as he said just before it that it was his pet hate, he dealt with it reasonably by verbally advising her which In the spirit of things she took. I would have thought that had he have spoken to her like that and issued a ticket then criticism could have been laid at his door, but he didnt.

As for the message side of it I dont think i know anyone who likes to deliver these, but you just have to be as sympathetic and compassionate as possible along with proffessionalism, then you just have to get back into the job again as there is no time to sit down and have a cup of tea and sympathy its onto the next part of the job or the next job.

Every police officer deals with death in there own way and this is sometimes hard for other none police staff to understand our way of coping. This is my own personal opinion based on my own experiences.
Stephen

[SamD]

Hmm. You are right in saying his manner wasn't unreasonable. Nothing bad happened due to his upset.

But he was a very different man after having to see the familly. His self control was OK considering, but the fact remains, he was not dealing with those people in the normal (if this exists) way. He was angry, coping, but only just. The idiot on the hard shoulder needed the FPN (or NIP) but the offence had little to do with breaking bad news to a family. The officer started (I think) his discussion with the driver on this subject however.

I'm not critising the guy as an individual. I'm full of admiration really. Its more the policy makers that I'm questioning. If there aren't the resources to give officers some time to collect themselves after times of high emotion that's one thing. If the policy makers don't feel there is a need to address the impact of circumstances such as these, thats quite another. The 'get on with it' approach is cost effective (and may even be therapeutic for some) but can ruin others. And its not about strength or weakness.

[martine]

I agree with SamD - understandable but I got the impression the horrendous news he had had to break to the family meant his emotions were still running high. For his own good I'd have thought he needed to be accompanied or straight back to the office or even home. I know that's probably just not an option but all I'd say is I think it should be.

The program was an excellent doc. of why it's not acceptable to use a mobile and should be shown to all those caught...it might do more than a £30 fine or even the proposed increased penalties in the new traffic act.

I thought the way the police dealt with the RTC came across very well and was a credit to both them and the makers.

[Søren]

There is no doubt that the door knock and the following 2 to 10 hours spent with the family is a harrowing experience for all concerned As a police officer it completely rags your nerves, making it very easy to get emotionally wound up. I watched the programme, and identified with the FLO and all the thought processes he was going through. It is a job that doesn't get easier the more experience you have - you become much more aware of how much this visit is going to completely destroy an unexpecting group of lives.

I have made a personal policy of not getting involved in dealing with minor matters during that sensitive time, because you can make a proper fool of yourself, bellowing incoherent nonsense to confused people, sometimes ending up in tears - I have seen it happen!

[vonhosen]

Debrief & Officer welfare are considered important, but often the exigencies of the service take over in the heat of the moment.

As for ticket for hard shoulder use & verbal warning for phone use in very slow moving traffic............sounds like par for the course.

[Roadcraft]

This is the consequence of having human beings operating as police officers..

I've delivered many death warnings and the effect on those that recieve the message stays with you for a long time...

Out of the 365 days of last year, if someone asked me to relay minute by minute a 3 hour portion...I couldn't tell you about holidays with my family, BBQs, meals with my wife etc etc..in the same detail that I can telling you about how I delivered the news of a woman's death in a car crash to her husband, who in turn told their twin 7 year old daughters... I spent the next 3 hours in their company and their shattered lives...

Of course, the next day when I was reporting someone for speeding, i'm sure that driver thought I was just an unfeeling a***hole of a traffic cop who didn't have anything better to do...!

If only people knew the bigger picture of 'LIFE'...

[James]

My sentiments exactly. Death Messages are probably the worst part of an officers job. They get to their worst when dealing, either way round, with parents, and to their utmost when dealing with young children.

[martine]

I find it difficult to imagine what it's like from your point of view and I have the utmost respect for people that have to do this. I suppose it must be a consolation if the family show appreciation in any small way.

I think Soren's comment about not getting into "small matters" sounds sensible when your emotions are still raw.

I guess it must affect your driving as well.

[Nigel]

I was surprised they sent him back to the scene, if he'd got time to issue a warning and an fpn, his presence wasn't urgent.

I only ever had any dealings with one fatality, and as a special that wasn't intended (nearest patrol car, reported minor accident, "go and secuire the scene until an area car gets there").

It was over 15 years ago now, my eldest child had been born a few days earlier, and the fatality was a toddler (not strapped in, bounced around the car etc)

To back roadcraft up, I can still tell you all about it, every detail.

I was ok at the scene, I was very close & arrived first, an ambulance hadn't even been called,(not so many mobile phones 15 years ago, strange to think now) there were no reported injuries, I actually did everything I had been taught.

I wasn't ok afterwards though, I went back to the station and was heartbroken.

It does alter your outlook, everytime I saw an unrestrained child in a car after that, the driver was tugged.

I attended a couple of "sudden deaths" as 2nd officer, but they were elderly people, and it seemed different, I was the kettle jockey whilst the regular dealt.

[SamD]

I'm clearly in the presence of some dedicated and public spirited people and for that I take my hat off to you all.

To back roadcraft up, I can still tell you all about it, every detail.

As an aside, adrenaline seems to have a role in strengthening memory (possibly evolutionary reasons for making you remember bad things very powerfully so you avoid them next time). This is why some think its worth prescribing beta-blockers (adrenaline receptor blocker) asap after a traumatic event where they feel there is risk of PTSD.

I think some might feel I'm being a little picky about an individual's performance under pretty severe duress, but I need to reiterate that its not really the individual I'm primarily questioning but his employer's policy on what should be done immediately post a high emotion event. Von seems to be saying that officer wellbeing in this scenario is subject to available resources at the time. -A worrying but typical public sector trend that I can vouch for.

I also feel that despite harrowing circumstances we do have to question performance. I have been assaulted many times in the line of my duties (-I have worked with some very 'challenging' people -involved in 40 separate restraints in a day once). Dealing with someone who is actively trying to hurt you very badly indeed whilst maintaining a highly professional duty of care over them is a tough ask. Careful and calm negotiation in the face of physical danger, potentially physically stopping them hurting you/others whilst not hurting them. It takes supreme self awareness & control to do this (and we couldn't cuff ' em, use armlocks or stick 'em in viper belts). And no I didn't always do it very well. But you only improve by learning from mistakes and honestly asking 'could I have done this a bit better?'. This is one of the basic tenets of advanced driving is it not?

[Gareth]

it was a good publicity point for getting across the mobile phone message,yes he was upset just like most officers BFLO or not at the tragic waste of life, and as he said just before it that it was his pet hate, he dealt with it reasonably by verbally advising her which In the spirit of things she took.

More to the point there is a world of difference, (especially in terms of adverse outcome), between using a mobile phone while crawling along in an almost stationary traffic jam and using one in free flowing traffic.

[Gromit37]

I didn't see all of the program, I missed the first few minutes... but I think the officer handled the mobile phone and hard shoulder incidents very well. He was clearly very upset, but incredibly professional. All due respect to the man. I couldn't do his job.

If our Police officers were encouraged to 'bark' at people more often, I think it would be a good thing. In our (no pun intended) very PC world, the pussyfooting approach doesn't always pay dividends. To Von and other officers... don't take offence, it's not a criticism of our Police, but the powers that be and the political system we have. Occasionally, people should be shouted at when they do something wrong. IMHO of course. I'll now don protective helmet and duck!

[martine]

[More to the point there is a world of difference, (especially in terms of adverse outcome), between using a mobile phone while crawling along in an almost stationary traffic jam and using one in free flowing traffic.

Hear, hear. It's strange to think someone parked with the engine running or even just keys in the ignition might be breaking the law by using a handheld mobile. Lets concentrate on the idiots who insist on driving through urban roads, one-handed while negotiating r/b, junctions, zebras etc.

[nuster100]

I just wish he has seen the transit van doing the same thing when he was issuing the ticket.

I think that driver was very lucky.

Jay